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TOPIC: What is "Sharp"

What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16455

  • Quoddy99
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It seems that the more knives I sharpen with my WE, the more confused I become about, what, exactly, is sharp? I can spend two hours or more running through the diamonds and then the entire Chosera range, followed by stropping and have a very polished edge under the loupe... BUT... it doesn't seem any sharper, and sometimes not even as sharp as stopping after the 1K diamond and maybe giving a quick 1µ strop. Again, yesterday, I got fantastic results on a CMP154 knife with the abbreviated process.
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16456

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Check, check and double check that you have raised a burr right out to the edge of the blade and the complete length.
Except when raising the burr, do not use too much pressure...for all the rest caress the blade with you paddles.
Remember your diamonds need a break-in period.
Be sure you are giving equal strokes on both sides.

My two cents worth! ;)

Leo
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Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16457

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_MG_8323_2014-03-08.jpg

Scandi grind
IMG_0001_1_2014-03-08.jpg

Convex taper and bevel
In practice I believe it is the geometry it is what lies directly above the bevel and the transition between one and another that makes for a sharp knife.
This is why perhaps multiple bevels or a good convex bevel will produce a blade that cuts deep.
I find that if I pinch a blade at the point where taper meets bevel and can feel a transition the blade is too fat and the cutting bevel may be too wide or to steep in the exception of a Scandi grind.
This is why I think ceramic knives are poor because the material is too brittle to take a good taper and therefore they are fine for cutting processed foods or something like lettuce but not a lot else.
The taper to the bevel should be virtually to the edge and the bevel itself should be that small that it should be 0.5-1.0mm wide and then it really makes no odds if that bevel is a V or convex.
Last Edit: 4 months 3 weeks ago by LeoBarr.
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16458

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Yea I'm getting pretty confused myself these days!!! I feel like after hitting the super fine ceramics that's it. I understand the purpose of stropping, I think. I lower my angle by 2 and I feel like the mirror edge is not worth losing what I think is sharp!! But I'm still pretty new at the. Probably less the 35 knives in. I have been all over the forum trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong. Even ask questions. By the way thanks to all that has answered!!! Pressure maybe?? But from what I have read trail and error. Don't get me wrong I get things sharp!! Just have to find my winning combo!!! Get topic by the way !! I feel the same!! Good luck and sharpen on!!!!
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16459

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Get some knives that do not matter - cheap and experiment I think it is easy to expect a mirror bevel to be the answer but often the really important part is the shape - geometry even if the steel is inferior you can taper it well and then put say a 20Ëš + bevel on it to allow for the soft steel and get a good result . But put an edge say at 15Ëšon to a thick blade the bevel will be very wide and the shoulders of the bevel will be like a limiter on the performance the shoulders will get stuck on what you are cutting try slicing through a piece of paper held up and you will see that a nicely thinned blade will pass through the paper as if it is not there even if the edge has not been refined that much ; then try to slice paper with a thick blade whose edge has been through all you stones and strops and it will be hampered by its thickness on the top of the bevel which is why multiple bevels or convex bevels are the answer to allow a knife to cut well especially gutting your fish.
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16460

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Leo Mitch offers the other good advice are you getting to the edge if in doubt use that starting stone a little longer I think it is normal when beginning to not sharpen through to the edge I reckon I did that on at least the first dozen knives I did on an Edge Pro the best advice is to use a lube as well and possible a marker pen so you can see clearly if you have reached the edge .
Another worthwhile bit of advice Leo Mitch mentions is not too much pressure it is the same using sand paper on wood or paint press too hard and the paper does not last , it clogs up easily and the surface becomes uneven since the pressure varies its the same say with an orbital sander or palm sander let the grit and movement do the work if you do not press too hard it is easy to keep a uniform pressure over the span of the blade.

Leo Nav
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16461

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Anther point to make and it fooled me a lot when I was first putting edges on with the We. When you go further up the grits the less tooth you have? When I got done with the 1K diamonds and felt the edge it felt very sharp? Then I bought the Chosera's worked my way up to 10K and it did not "feel" as sharp?
Providing you are getting to the edge of the edges? The difference in sharp is amazing? The 10K chosera you can shave with, but try to cut rope and surely it will fold on you. A 800 diamond will cut the hell out of rope, but will bring a tear to you eye if you try to shave with it?
Somewhere in between all this is the edge the specific task needs? But as stated before all is for nothing if the edge of the edge has not been hit? I highly recommend the black sharpie and a loupe to check all edges after each stone till your sure. I don't use a sharpie every time these days, but I always check with the loupe! Many a time I have been fooled and especially with the chosera's!! When working with the chosera's make sure to use your angle cube on every stone!!! The slightest deviation with chosera's will just ruin a perfectly good edge!
Good luck and have fun!
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16462

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Thanks for those points Eamon and I think you have answered the question most clearly. In a sense there are different sharps depending on what you are cutting.An edge that whittles a hair may fold and die if you put it to work cutting a hemp rope or chopping carrots. It was a question I asked a bunch of the finest sharpeners in the world on another forum and they missed this point. Polishing molecules will not get you and edge you want to take out on a camping trip or in a possible survival situation.
Great points my Irish friend!

Leo
Never go anywhere without your knife!
Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16463

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leomitch wrote:
Thanks for those points Eamon and I think you have answered the question most clearly. In a sense there are different sharps depending on what you are cutting.An edge that whittles a hair may fold and die if you put it to work cutting a hemp rope or chopping carrots. It was a question I asked a bunch of the finest sharpeners in the world on another forum and they missed this point. Polishing molecules will not get you and edge you want to take out on a camping trip or in a possible survival situation.
Great points my Irish friend!

Leo

Leo,
You are far to kind to me!
Thank you,
Eamon
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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What is "Sharp" 4 months 3 weeks ago #16464

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Thanks for the replies. It still confuses me a bit as I sharpen away. Since the whole process is fairly new to me, I'm probably getting better at it without realizing it. I do believe that many of my early sharpening processes were hurried, i.e., not done sufficiently or correctly which may be showing more now that I have some experience, albeit minor, with the WE.
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