Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15903

  • razoredgeknives
  • razoredgeknives's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 712
  • Thank you received: 308
  • Karma: 38
LeoBarr wrote:
One word of advice with Choseras they are essentially splash & go stones . There is a guy virtuvoice on you tube that has had problems with cracking with the Choseras & Shaptons since they are mounted they tend to not dry evenly.

I wonder if this was why my 5k cracked? I soak them for 5-15 minutes before use, sometimes longer. I didn't know that it would hurt them, Bobnever mentioned this even when he replaced it... Hmm I'll try not doing this for so long. Thanks Leo!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15904

  • Mikedoh
  • Mikedoh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 448
  • Thank you received: 106
  • Karma: 14
My Choseras are from my EP and I had always soaked them as you did/do. Thought it was written somewhere to soak.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: razoredgeknives

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15905

  • EamonMcGowan
  • EamonMcGowan's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 521
  • Thank you received: 197
  • Karma: 28
I believe Bob instructed me to soak my chosera's. It is my impression that the Shaptons are the stones that you splash. I am going to send Bob an email and ask him to weigh in on this topic. I too had to have stones replaced. Maybe Tom from Jende Industries could say something as well? I will email him as well.


Edit: I have left an email with both Tom and Bob. Hope to hear from them soon?
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
Last Edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by EamonMcGowan. Reason: Left emails for Bob and Tom
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15907

  • Geocyclist
  • Geocyclist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 429
  • Thank you received: 145
  • Karma: 31
I soak for 10-15 minutes. I have read on the forum that you don't want to soak them too long. By splash and go this means (to me) that after soaking very little water is needed. Every 2-5 minutes I add 4 drops per stone to keep them damp.

I am late to the party but here is my recommendations: keep the 1000# diamonds. They are just so versatile and a good end/start to the water stones.

From personal experience I would save the Roo's until you get some experience with the WEPS. If I only had one set of strops 3.5/5 would be fine. I cut my strops up a bit early on in the learning phase, and still knick them a bit from time to time.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15909

  • jendeindustries
  • jendeindustries's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 326
  • Thank you received: 113
  • Karma: 34
There's some excellent advice given by all here! B) If you want even more perfection Quaddy99, I highly recommend adding a 400 or 600/800 Chosera to the mix to really even out those diamond 800/1000 scratches. We're talking scary mirror finish in the end.

Leo Barr - a couple of clarifying points:

I disagree with is using the 600 grit cleaning stones from the full sized stones for use as a slurry/paste generator unless on the 400, 600 and possibly the 800 stones. On higher grits the 600 is contaminating the action of the stones. Rubbing same grit stones together or using a diamond plate to generate slurry is much more desirable for better finishes. After using a generated slurry, I recommend rinsing the stones and using them again without a slurry - the paste generated from this method will produce a better finish than one with slurry, which is more aggressive (and leaves deeper scratches).

As for the cracking issue - Virtuovice's videos need to be taken with a grain of salt - he is also the guy who sharpened on a stone drenched with his own blood - seriously. :sick: Curiously, he called the 5K and 600 stones "soft", which they are, but the 2K is also considered a soft, if not the softest stone in the bunch...

But that aside, his video on the cracked stones are full sized (3x8x1 inch thick) on plastic bases, which may account for an uneven drying since water may pool on the bottom. The ~5" x 3/4" x 5mm thickness of the WEPS stones are much less likely to have that issue since the water can much more easily evaporate.

What alarms me about virtuovice's video is that ALL of his stones have cracked, which leads me to believe that he is storing them improperly. He doesn't say how he has stored them, so it is difficult to say what the true cause is. The Choseras stones he has are probably the same formulation as we have, but the Shaptons are an older, M series, which are not currently available in the US (I don't know if they are still available in Japan). Overall, I have never heard of widespread cracking on either brand.

Back to the discussion at hand, the issues of the Choseras for the WEPS cracking are practically non existent since we started. I think we can count on one hand the small number of cases that were not caused by user error, and they were more weird, isolated anomalies than anything. Most often, the cracks are caused by dropping paddles, bending the WEPS stones, and by smacking the stones against the knife too hard.

However, given the very few reports over the years of full sized 5K and 10K Choseras cracking, I would not recommend soaking them indefinitely, or putting them in direct sunlight or leaving them prolonged in an uncontrolled environment, such as in water in an unheated garage near the south side window in winter. :cheer:

I hope this helps!
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: EamonMcGowan, LeoBarr

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15910

  • EamonMcGowan
  • EamonMcGowan's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 521
  • Thank you received: 197
  • Karma: 28
Tom, what is your advise on using them once the cutting you need is done? Do you use them soaked or damp or ? I keep a spray bottle handy and when the stone has become "loaded" I then spray the stone wet then mix the the sludge with my finger to a loose grim then wipe them clean with a rag and spray them again with clean water as to start new.
I got this from Phil Pastor on an old thread here. He was the "old timer" on the board so I figured he knew? How says you? :unsure:
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15911

  • jendeindustries
  • jendeindustries's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 326
  • Thank you received: 113
  • Karma: 34
Hi Eamon!

I usually just spritz my stones as I'm setting up the knife for sharpening. And since I usually begin with the diamonds, I've got a few minutes before the Choseras are needed. When I'm ready for them, I give them another spritz and start working. Some people swear they work better after 5 minutes of soaking, but whatever works for you is fine so long as the surfaces are wet when you use them.

As I use them (I generally don't use a slurry) I will add only a drop of water or so to keep the black paste that forms alive. Keeping the paste on the stone slows down the cutting action and increases polishing. Since the heavy sharpening was usually done on the diamonds, I want to bring out the Chosera's polishing properties. If I want more aggression, like on the 400, 600 & 800, I will wash the paste off completely and use the stone clean.

After use, I will lap the stones and let them dry over night on a clean towel - I lay the paddle down on the towel, not the stones. I like to make sure that if there are any water drops in the hole for the arms, it is dry before I pack up the stones for storage - usually about 12-36 hours.

I live in a very humid area (80-05% all year) and for comparison, my full size Choseras take about 4-5 days to dry out completely. I put them on their side on a paper towel to help draw out the water. When the paper towel is dry again, I know the stones are, too.
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: wickededge, EamonMcGowan, LeoBarr

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15915

  • tcmeyer
  • tcmeyer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 208
  • Thank you received: 144
  • Karma: 21
I had a friend who went to gunsmithing school in Colorado (CO School of Trades). He kept all of his stones (all Arkansas and a few synthetics) in a pan of mineral spirits or WD-40. The soak kept metal particles from becoming embedded. Didn't need much honing oil.

Come to think of it, I used a lot of honing oil until I bought my WEPS. I was going to get a new bottle from Jantz but don't need to anymore. S
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15917

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1260
  • Thank you received: 413
  • Karma: 92
tcmeyer wrote:
I had a friend who went to gunsmithing school in Colorado (CO School of Trades). He kept all of his stones (all Arkansas and a few synthetics) in a pan of mineral spirits or WD-40. The soak kept metal particles from becoming embedded...

Don't do this with Choseras!!! :ohmy: :ohmy:

Here's what comes with the full size stones...


image_2014-02-08.jpg

(Thought I'd show this since it mentioned the crazing that may occur.)


... although I've found they work pretty well by just spraying them initially, and keeping them wet during sharpening with the occasional spray.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: wickededge

Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input 5 months 3 weeks ago #15972

  • Quoddy99
  • Quoddy99's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 34
  • Thank you received: 36
  • Karma: 8
I've done 5 knives now, each of a different metal... today's was a slightly re-profiled Busse with Infi. Now that the stones and Roo are getting broken in, the whole process is easier, and the blades even sharper.

The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: wickededge, leomitch
Time to create page: 0.151 seconds