Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Stropping Discussions

TOPIC: When are the strops working best?

Re: When are the strops working best? 1 year 4 days ago #10462

  • mark76
  • mark76's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1097
  • Thank you received: 306
  • Karma: 86
Thanks again Phil. First, to clear up a misunderstanding, Wicked Edge doesn’t make any 0.025 micron diamond pastes. The only stropping compounds with particles of that size I know are the polycrystalline and monocrystalline diamonds sprays by Ken Schwartz. That is why I thought you had use at least one of those.
I am not sure what the mystery is or why it is hard to understand. The pastes have abrasives in them, they are abrading the steel (ever notice the gray or black stains the strops get?).

The mystery I don’t understand is the following. The Wicked Edge diamond pastes don’t produce scratches of the size they are listed for. You can see the pictures of the results of the 14 micron paste here , but it is the same for the other pastes.

My first guess was that this is because the diamond particles are hidden in the leather somewhere. But it is the same for balsa strops and other stropping mediums.

Yet these pastes do work. Stones that abrade leave scratches of about the same micron size they are listed for. So my assumption was (and is) that diamond pastes should do the same. A 3M 15 micron paste I tested did indeed leave such scratches (here). But the Wicked Edge pastes don’t.

The only way I (and others) were able to explain this was stiction/stickiness/sliding friction.

And why I like the Wicked Edge pastes? Because they work :) . The 3M paste I tested also worked well. The Dovo paste was much, much less effective (to the point where I’d say it doesn’t work – at least not as expected).
Last Edit: 1 year 4 days ago by mark76.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: When are the strops working best? 1 year 4 days ago #10465

  • PhilipPasteur
  • PhilipPasteur's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Phil
  • Posts: 944
  • Thank you received: 233
  • Karma: 66
A good start to understanding the reasons that the pastes work the way that thye do would be to understand what exactly is in them. As we have talked, usually any abrasive is listed as an average size. The range of sizes in the material and distribution and limits of those deviations from the average is also important in understanding the results. I have not seen that published for the WEPS pastes. The concentration of the abrasives is likewise important.

One explanation for what you describe would be that the distribution runs on the small side, or maybe the concentration is low or both ...and potentially the carrier has some polishing ability of its own.

You mention...scratches are scratches per grit (or words to that effect)... we know that is not always true. On a macro level, for instance scratches from a 5K Shapton stone are much more prominent than those from the 5K Chosera, even though the grit sizes are pretty darn close. Even on the microscopic level there are differences easily detected. The polishing component of the Chosera actually looks like it removes, or at least softens some of the scratches... at least to me.

In any case, without knowing what is in the pastes, exactly, any assignment of causes for any percieved difference in their functionality, is pure conjecture. In particular, those that don't make any physical sense, should be examined more closely, IMHO.

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: When are the strops working best? 1 year 3 days ago #10495

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1713
  • Thank you received: 564
  • Karma: 90
This is a fascinating conversation and I hope to be able to contribute more to it soon. I've got some plain carrier paste in house now without any abrasive that I will be testing. We're also tinkering with the concentrations of the diamond pastes to see what kind of results we'll get. I've been lacking the time lately to perform any real controlled tests, but am hoping for more time soon. Once we move into our new space, we'll have a better R&D facility and performing these experiments will be a little easier.
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: When are the strops working best? 11 months 4 weeks ago #10637

  • mark76
  • mark76's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1097
  • Thank you received: 306
  • Karma: 86
wickededge wrote:
I've got some plain carrier paste in house now without any abrasive that I will be testing. We're also tinkering with the concentrations of the diamond pastes to see what kind of results we'll get. I've been lacking the time lately to perform any real controlled tests, but am hoping for more time soon.

Awesome! Really looking forward.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.128 seconds