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TOPIC: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE

I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5834

New to the WE and am a very inexperienced sharpener. I hope this system is better than all the others I have tried and what little time I have spent on the WE, I can easily claim that it is.
New to the WE as of 2 days ago and I have officially dulled the edge on my Shirogorov Hati. I called WE and spoke with a gentleman named Kyle, who was very polite and helpful. He said that stones have to be broken in and that I need to give the knife about 40-75 strokes per side using the coarser stones until I get a burr. I could barely get a burr after about 80 strokes on one side at 100 grit. I am guessing that the stones need to be broken in more, but I even rubbed the stones together to increase the breaking in process. So, my knife is more dull now than ever. Seriously frustrating. What am I doing wrong?
Also, what do you do when you have A LOT of metal shavings and dust that settled into my Hati's pivot area? I rinsed it off and the action is extremely gritty now.
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by MichaelBessinger.
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5835

  • leomitch
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OK, let me see if I can help.
First off the burr has to be there or all is for naught. With the 100 stone do an up and down scrubbing motion for the number of stokes you are using, making sure that you do the whole length of the edge right out to the edge. Here is where a magic marker can be used to see whether you are in fact getting right out there and for the full length. You do one side first and check with a cotton ball to see if you have a burr in fact...forget your finger, the cotton ball doesn't lie. Then do the other side and check again. This process is the only time you will use any kind of pressure...from here on in, for all the rest of the stones and strops, you will use the sweeping strokes that you see Clay using in his videos and the face of the paddles will caress the formative edge like a gentle summer breeze or zephyr. I can't emphasize enough that you have to be gentle for these last phases. Stropping the same. If you raise a burr and do as I have stated you cannot not get a sharp edge...it is a fail-safe method at least for me nd I wil bet for you...let the kiss of the diamonds do the work, not your muscles.
Best of luck my friend. I anxiously await your success and the ribald comments which often follow my instructions, LOL!

Leo
Never go anywhere without your knife!
Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5836

  • DAUG
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MichaelBessinger wrote:
New to the WE and am a very inexperienced sharpener. .........
..... but I even rubbed the stones together to increase the breaking in process......

Just a quick note never to rub the diamond stones together. It's the fastest way to ruin the abrasiveness of you stones. It's one of the important wisdom(s) imparted to me from the more knowledgeable members on this forum. It will naturally break in and you'll quickly develop the "burr" that everyone talks about.

There's a lot of experience on this forum and I think you'll find it useful on your path to creating wickedly sharp edges...have fun with it and don't let the frustration get to you. You're on your way, my friend!
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5837

  • WayneNicklin
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How hard did you rub the stones together?. You can ruin these very easily by doing that, a few very light strokes at most.
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by WayneNicklin. Reason: Spelling
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5838

I am not sure exactly how to describe how I rubbed the stones together, but this is what I was told to by someone at WE.
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5839

  • WayneNicklin
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Go to Good Will, the swap meet or Saturday yard sales and buy for penny's some old beat up kitchen knives. First you can practice your technique, it will take a little practice and it varies by everyone. This will also help you to break in the diamond plates. These knives now become test beds for experimentation.
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5840

  • WayneNicklin
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I have personally modified my technique no fewer than a dozen times. Different knives, styles, steels etc. practice on the cheap stuff first. If you make a,really bad mistake throw it away.
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5841

  • Billabong
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MichaelBessinger wrote:
New to the WE and am a very inexperienced sharpener. I hope this system is better than all the others I have tried and what little time I have spent on the WE, I can easily claim that it is.
New to the WE as of 2 days ago and I have officially dulled the edge on my Shirogorov Hati. I called WE and spoke with a gentleman named Kyle, who was very polite and helpful. He said that stones have to be broken in and that I need to give the knife about 40-75 strokes per side using the coarser stones until I get a burr. I could barely get a burr after about 80 strokes on one side at 100 grit. I am guessing that the stones need to be broken in more, but I even rubbed the stones together to increase the breaking in process. So, my knife is more dull now than ever. Seriously frustrating. What am I doing wrong?
Also, what do you do when you have A LOT of metal shavings and dust that settled into my Hati's pivot area? I rinsed it off and the action is extremely gritty now.

I found this informative entry from the FAQ data base, hope it may help you?

wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_c...31:general&Itemid=46

As for the filings in the pivot joint, prevention is the best option and people here advise wrapping those parts of your knife in plastic food wrap before you start to sharpen.
To remove the filings, I'm guessing compressed air followed by some spray product.
Not sure what, as I am from Aussie land.
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by Billabong.
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5857

  • cbwx34
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Hey Michael... welcome to the forum.

A couple of notes... while 40-75 strokes to raise a burr may be a general guideline or good starting point, every knife is different... raising a burr depends on a number of factors: steel type, if you're matching the current angle or reprofiling, etc. So, on some knives it may take 10 strokes, on another it may take 500. So don't think it's wrong that you haven't raised a burr after 80 strokes. Number doesn't matter... do whatever it takes to raise a burr. Also, you have to raise a burr on both sides.

How did you set your angle? If by matching what's on the blade, raising a burr should be quick... if you picked a setting based on the instructions, it may not match what's on the knife, and could take a while. For a first sharpening, as Leo suggested, marking the edge with a Sharpie and matching what's on the knife, and making sure you're getting all the way to the edge, might be a better way to go.

Did you progress thru the finer stones? Only the finer stones need breaking in, the coarse 100 stones don't really, since they're job is to primarily remove metal at a faster rate. You will benefit from all the stones breaking in, because it's easier to remove the scratches of the previous stone, but breaking in the 100g stones isn't really necessary. I'm also one that suggests you let the knives break in the stones, and don't rub them together... they'll break in quick enough. As mentioned in the link Billabong posted... you'll end up with a sharp edge on new stones, just not as refined as you might like it to be.

To clean the pivot... if rinsing didn't work... try hot soapy water and scrub what you can with a toothbrush... then blow it out with compressed air and lube. If rust is a concern, flush it with WD40, then lube.

Finally, as Wayne suggested, get a "beater" knife to practice on. I looked up the model you mentioned, looks like a very nice knife with some quality steel. You may want to practice on something else first, so that you become familiar with the WE and how it works.

Keep us posted!!
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Re: I have officially dulled a blade with the WE 1 year 6 months ago #5887

  • ApexGS
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Another small tip when trying to match the angle... start wider to work from the "top" down in a manner of speaking. If you start low, you'll end up putting a nice little scratch pattern... outside the polished area of your bevel! Sometimes the strops set to a degree or more lower than the main angle can clean that up, but better to avoid it :)

I just happened to think of that because I don't think I've read anyone mention it before, or I missed it at any rate. I normally start wider by default, but recently "colored outside the lines" by accident, reading the wrong line on my data table :whistle:
Your friendly neighborhood gunsmith!
- Tom
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