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TOPIC: Some clarification, Please.....

Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 4 weeks ago #15683

  • GibCurry
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OK, VoodooDaddy, great mods and excellent video showing them in action. Thank you. (www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=c...&id=12675&Itemid=271)

The placement of the knife in the vise raises some unclarity in my own mind. (My wife & kids might suggest I add .... what remains of it!)

I went back to Finding The Sweet Spot.

It begins by saying place the knife approximately centered. I've noticed in Tuffy's videos and now yours how far back (not forward) that the knives are placed. VoodooDaddy, the WE only has a way to support the tip so you even created a modification to steady the handle.

On the page Finding The Sweet Spot, it describes some of the effects of moving the blade like that. Is that the why of "why do you place the knife so far back?" The obtuseness or acuteness of the bevels along the length? Or????

Online it's difficult to convey subtler meanings. I'm not challenging. It's more like an apprentice seeking further understanding.

I also noticed your angle testing method. To what degree of accuracy, so to say, do you look for? Plus or minus how many degrees? The angle cube goes to two decimal places.

What degree of difference begins to be negatively noticeable in a blade? One or two degrees? One or two tenths of a degree? One or two hundredths?

Thanks, in advance, for any insight....
~~~~

For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

"My goal is to be a good, practical knife sharpener. My dream is to polish molecules."
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 4 weeks ago #15686

  • mark76
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GibCurry wrote:
What degree of difference begins to be negatively noticeable in a blade? One or two degrees? One or two tenths of a degree? One or two hundredths?

I always strive to remain within half a degree of variation. Maybe I'm anal, but in this way I've never had any problems.
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15695

  • LeoBarr
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I agree with you that is what I work to half a degree any less is very difficult plus I am not sure that the angle cube is probable accurate to 0.1 Ëš even though it gives you that readout I think one would have to pay a lot more for an angle measurement devise reading to 0.1Ëšaccurately . I also find that the angle changes by 0.1/0.2Ëš when tightening up the friction screw so 0.5Ëš is good enough for the equipment we have I would say.
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15704

  • tcmeyer
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I've had the Igage(?) AngleCube for about four years, but I dropped it a few months ago and it gave a few screwy readings, so I went out looking for a replacement. On checking all the online reviews, it looked like the Wixey was more accurate, so I sprung for it.

Then I realized that the Igage unit had more features than my new Wixey. Disappointed, I got out the old Cube and played with it. After I had zeroed it and then rotated it four 90 degree turns, it started working again.

In the simple tests I put them through, the both showed accuracy within one tenth of a degree. The easiest test is to zero the display, then rotate the cube cw and ccw, checking for exactly 90.0 degree readings. I also zeroed them each on a four-foot carpenter's level. When I raise one end of the level one inch, the cubes should read 1.2 degrees. {Arctan 1/48}

The Wixey reads out to one decimal point. The Imaging unit reads out to what is referred to one and a half decimal points. The last digit is always either a 5 or a zero. When it reads a five, you know you're somewhere in the middle.

The Igage has a "Hold" feature, which I really would hate to give up.
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15718

  • TedS
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My Wixey has magnets only on one side
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15734

  • leomitch
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As pointed out, it is very difficult to not have some small angle error when working with the WEPS. An error of a .5 degree for me at least, is precision enough. Anyone who claims to be accurate every time to the degree is dreaming. THE WEPS is as accurate as other sharpeners and I suspect a whole lot more accurate than some of the vaunted professional sharpeners sworn by on other forums...certainly more so than free hand work. Micrometer accuracy would require a tool many times the cost of the WEPS but I hasten to say, wouldn't make that much difference to your edges for most of your normal usage.
The electronic digital angle cubes more assuredly assists in making my angles as close to the degree I want than without. I use an Intercomp 102144 Digital Angle Gauge with Magnetic Base and 2 sides which I bought a long time ago right from Intercomp...they have the best price at circa $60.You can also get them from Amazon.com. Whoa you say! $60! Yup, because this baby has a screen that lights up so these poor old eyes can easily read what it says. You may laugh, but it makes all the difference to anyone whose eyes are beginning to fade. This feature plus an accuracy of .5 degrees +/_ is good enough for government work.I used to have to have a flashlight handy to read the old cube's readout.
Now I have 2 angle cubes. Speak up and my old one with the unlit screen is yours for the shipping cost. PM me if you want it.

Leo
Never go anywhere without your knife!
Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
Last Edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by leomitch.
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15735

  • GibCurry
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mark76 wrote:
I always strive to remain within half a degree of variation. Maybe I'm anal, but in this way I've never had any problems.

OK. Thanks everyone for your input on the +/- degree variation.

Now, for the knife placement.

I'm not even sure how to phrase my question..... when I follow the published technique of finding the sweet spot my chef knives seem to be more centered with just a little more one way or other toward tip or heel.

But, I've seen several instances where the knives are placed with the vise relatively close to the tip and heel sticking out a long way.

How is the placement of the knives computed in this situation? Are the "ruler" and depth gauge used for repeatability?

Is my more forward placement why I seem to have to take off a lot of metal at the tips of my knives to bring the bevels together?
~~~~

For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

"My goal is to be a good, practical knife sharpener. My dream is to polish molecules."
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15741

  • wickededge
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GibCurry wrote:

How is the placement of the knives computed in this situation? Are the "ruler" and depth gauge used for repeatability?

I think Lagrangian could help us here with the model he's developed. Hopefully he'll step in. You might try posing this question on this thread: Geometry and Kinematics of Guided-Rod Sharpeners Perhaps he can take your blade shape and calculate it for you precisely. His post is a completely fascinating read anyway. [/quote]
Is my more forward placement why I seem to have to take off a lot of metal at the tips of my knives to bring the bevels together?

Most likely yes. I'd definitely try moving the tip closer to the clamp.
--Clay Allison
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15779

  • GibCurry
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Thanks, everyone. I love the Forum as much as I love the sharpener!!

I've got some new to me information and understanding....

Now to make that real by putting a wicked sharp edge on something!!

Then, I'll probably have some more questions!!
~~~~

For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

"My goal is to be a good, practical knife sharpener. My dream is to polish molecules."
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Some clarification, Please..... 5 months 3 weeks ago #15807

  • tcmeyer
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Boy, I just can't shut up...

Again, to the need for accuracy, I just bought a Spyderco Delica 4 in ZDP-189. Beautiful knife. Actually, I think all Spyderco knives are ugly, but functionally, this one is beautiful, and it's mine.

Straight from the Amazon box to the basement, I chucked up the Delica in my WE vise and immediately realized the tapered flat face grinds resulted in the blade rocking left to right and back. So I shimmed the knife to exact vertical by matching cube angles on both sides (there was enough exposed face to get a solid reading). Incidentally, that was really easy.

After chasing the Sharpie marks with my 1000 grit stones, I found that the left side was ground at 17 degrees and the right side was ground at 24 degrees. By our standards (on this forum) that downright sucks! But on balance, that's really only a half-degree off of the 20 listed as the standard. Spyderco thought it was OK and the knife and whatever it's cutting don't care. The only thing that matters is whether the knife's owner cares. That's me and when I look at one side, then look at the other, I can't tell. Life is good.
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