I'm not through the thread yet, but spotted this and thought I could comment -- maybe even intelligently!

PhilipPasteur wrote:

The DMT EEF can be had for just south of $15.00 for a 4.3 x 0.9 x 0.2 inches sample. I use "Permanent" double-sided tape, sticky enough to hold the stone tightly in place, not too sticky to keep you from getting it off. The only issue is that you have to remove the platen from the handle -- just six screws. But this gives you a good chance to test without a massive investment.

www.amazon.com/DMT-A4EE-Diamond-Whetston...dmt+extra+extra+fine

I personally found it too abrasive, even though it's rated at about 3 micron vs. the 1000 stone's 7 micron. I'm sure it needs a break-in period, but I didn't like it enough to keep it. More anecdotal evidence that no two microns are the same.

Update: I typed the above even before reading this post!

I also thought I should share my experience with the 3M Micro Abrasive Film/Paper (aka PSA). Here's my source for the 3M PSA paper.

www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/S...ary_Sharpening_-_PSA

I like the 3M PSA because it was inexpensive and was easy to use. I had no problems taping it onto the 800 or 1K stones, as the backing is very adhesive. I have used the 5u, 1u and 0.3u Aluminum Oxide. After I gained some experience with them, I noticed a slightly hazy look to my finish, rather than a nice shiny mirror.

I changed to using just the 5u AlOx (site above sells on Silicon Carbide in 5u), and subsequently jumping to strops/pastes (same micron progression) from there. This performed better than the 5 to .3 all-PSA progression, AND better than the 5 to .25 all-strop/diamond paste progression! I had a more noticeable mirror from the 5u AlOx PSA to 3.5u-1u-.25u diamond-on-balsa.

I have not used ceramic on the WE yet, but from descriptions and experience on Lansky/Spyderco, I get the impression the 5u AlOx is acting like a ceramic. I've seen ceramic described as "more uniform" and "hazy" in its shine, and this is [i][exactly[/i] how I'd describe the 5u AlOx. I've also heard it said that you can get a better mirror by using ceramic prior to stropping -- the uniform / hazy scratches aren't as deep as the diamond, so the strops shine them out nicely. My experience also matches up with that.

The drawback to the paper is that it's paper. If you have a turned edge, they may (okay, probably will) scratch up before they raise it to vertical. I've also scratched them up when the knife tip was turned. Need a stone for that stuff (I only have the 1K and it's too abrasive for touch-ups like that). But given the PSA's low cost and total ease of use, I think it's something worth trying.

-Pie

KenBuzbee wrote:

PhilipPasteur wrote:

All I gots to say is... S30V man... S-30-Frickin-V!



I would never use that amount of force on the extended clamp. But I still would have the same concerns about strength and stability.

-Pie

wickededge wrote:

My main concern would be stability. I just reprofiled an S30V and was really pressing hard with the 100 stones (and it still took forever). My immediate thought was of the primary clamp releasing the secondary clamp during a down-stroke, and all kinds of bloody havoc breaking out (literally!). Then there's the lesser issue of the secondary clamp (or knife) shifting during some hard work.

I'm betting these were primary concerns of yours as well, but since you asked.

-Pie

BluntCut wrote:

Awesome!!

I now have a query out to Lee Valley on their Blue Zirconia vs. Aluminum Oxide belts. At under $4.00 per set of belts, this is exactly what I was looking for!

Thanks!!

-Pie

PhilipPasteur wrote:

Well, let me put it this way. If I took that time and cut it in half, my wife would still kill if she knew how much I spent on the WEPS in the first place!

I've kind of been taken by surprise here. I actually thought there was an abundance of low-grit sandpapers for sharpening! Especially given how well the high grit 3M PSA paper works. Bummer man!

What would be ideal is if I could get the stones and paddles unattached. That way I could use something like double-sided tape and only attach the 50/80s when I need them. I'd then have the paddles available for something like a balsa strop.

-Pie

I just reprofiled an S30V knife, and it took.... FOREVER! UGH. Obviously the 50 stones would have come in handy here, but I just can't justify the cost for something I will only use a few times (I probably would never even get them broken in).

A cheap solution would be coarse Sandpaper. I already use the 3M micro fine paper at 1u and .3u, and it works great. This is paper designed for sharpening and holds up well for multiple uses (and mirrored the S30V!). So a few questions.

Is there coarse sandpaper designed/recommended for sharpening?

Anyone used coarse sandpaper with the Wicked Edge? I always like to hear experience/advice on new things!

Thanks.

-Pie

PhilipPasteur wrote:

The trick is to forget you made the order (easy for me these days!) and then one day this surprise shows up in the mailbox!

-Pie

KenBuzbee wrote:

I started reading your post about the brightness of the light, and thought "I oughta post about how it blinds me when---" oh crud, he beat me to it!

KenBuzbee wrote:

Yeah, you're point is exactly the lesson I learned quickly as a photographer. Good optics cost real money, but are almost always worth it! Sometimes the proposition is tough, though. I look at Canon's 500mm f/4 IS lens that costs $10,000 and don't know if I should laugh (because it's so expensive) or cry (because I want one!). It also serves a good lesson in scale of optics. My Canon 70-200mm f/4 IS is just under half the magnification, but costs 1/10th the price!

The description in the link is actually kind of funny. I've never seen a site try so hard to dissuade you from buying their product! But they're definitely getting the point across that optics are expensive.

-Pie

dgriff wrote:

Oh, wow! Good thread! Maybe I resurrected the wrong one!

I noticed the statement: No measurement exceeded 0.1° deviation from the reference angle. That means that every measurement was at most .1° degree off? I commonly seeing readings of.3° difference (in terms of your second post, maybe I could call this "accurate but out of spec!").

I also noticed another statement: The display did not always reach stability right away. Sometimes as much as 15 seconds were needed, but generally 5 or so seconds was enough. I usually wait a few seconds, but seldom 5, and certainly never 15! I'll give the cube another shot in Patience Mode and see how it works.

Thanks for both the link and for all your work on verification!

-Pie

Geocyclist wrote:

All great advice! I noticed all this pretty early on. The meter is sensitive to pitch and yaw both, so if it's not set the same every time, it's inconsistent. I do almost exactly the same as you (which, of course, is why your advice is great and -- I might add -- you're brilliant too! ).

The gauge seems to be most accurate when the plane of the face is exactly perpendicular to the base (alternatively, the corners should all be parallel to the base).

This makes it a nightmare to measure the forward bevel of Tanto knives. In that case I put the meter on the stone and set it against the bevel. Then, I turn the gauge until the face is perpendicular, using a stone set vertically on the base as a guide. It's not super accurate, and I just use this to get a ballpark angle the first time I align the knife in the vice.

Sounding more and more like I'm on par with experience. Always good to know!

(This sort of raises the question of "how accurate is accurate?" but that's probably for another day and another thread!)

-Pie

ThomasAscher wrote:

Thanks for the reply, but I probably wasn't clear enough. I am re-measuring the same bevel just a few seconds later without removing the gauge from the stone.

Here's what I do.

- Place cube on base and zero.
- Place Gauge on Stone*.
- Lay Stone against Bevel**.
- Note Gauge Measurement (say it's 25.2).
- Lift Stone from Bevel
- Lay Stone against Bevel**
- Note Gauge Measurement (now it's 25.4).
- Repeat a few times.
- Remove Gauge from Stone
- Replace Gauge on Base
- Make Post on Wickededge Forum.

It's seldom I get the exact same value twice in succession, but they're all close. Hopefully this is clearer and explains why I'm concerned about accuracy.

Hope that clears it up.

-Pie

* I use another stone to align the gauge vertically so it's the same every time.
** I align the stone so it's in the same place every time. Very light pressure so knife has not shifted.

EamonMcGowan wrote:

I guess I'm into old threads today...

I found that holding the paddles for a consistent angle was key. Since there's play between the paddles and the guide rods, you may not be hitting the bevel exactly the same with each pass (I measured a .4 to .5 degree variation). I used ModifiedZ recommendation: grasp the paddles so your index finger rests at the top and pushes toward the clamp, while rotating your wrist slightly to pull the bottom away from the clamp. This way you hit the bevel at the same angle every time. The first time I tried this, I produced a solid hair whittling edge.

-Pie

Rather than start a thread, I thought I'd revive a revival...

My angle cube tells me a different angle almost every time I lay the stone against the bevel. I mean, even if I just lift the stone and re-set a second later, I get a slightly different reading. For example, I will see like 25.2 then 25.4, then 25.2, then 25.3, etc. I know the accuracy is +/ 0.1 degree, but is this how it should really behave? And I am holding the stone at the exact same spot every time, so it's not variance on my part.

-Pie

KenBuzbee wrote:

I think this is an issue of conflicting international standards. There's the accurate "40x is 40x" standard that B&L (and other name brands) use, and then there's the Chinese "40x is whatever I say it is" standard. Ah China, the magical land where goods are cheap, and rules are rules nonexistent!

I actually suspected the Chinese loupes were mis-stating their ratings when I first started using them. Sounds like that's the case after all.

-Pie

What did you do with it to find the imperfection? Has it helped with burrs?

I am considering one too, but wanted to hear some first-hand experience!

-Pie

What material is the tester made from? It looks like a pen, and from the instructions, it seems like a pen would work exactly the same.

Here is a PDF link to the instructions.

I hope I don't come across as naysaying this product, it's just that it really does look like a pen-shaped piece of plastic.

-Pie

I like Fasttech... just stay away from the knives! I bought a "CRKT" knife that's my very first ever official knockoff product purchased in my life. And boy does it suck. Doesn't seem like there'd be money in fake knives, but then I was a sucker so go figure. (Ironically, I found them because they sell real Panasonic batteries -- something everyone else knocks off!)

Their magnets are pretty awesome too!

-Pie

I first used the loupe when doing the Sharpie Trick. It gave me a much more accurate view of the wear on the knife after just a few passes with the 1K grit stone. It's especially helpful when you're off by just a bit and it's difficult to see exactly where the stone is hitting the bevel.

Now I also use it to look at scratch patterns. Of course, most of the time I'm baffled by what I'm seeing... but I figure it'll make sense some day!

And now I want to ammend my recommendation. This 40x Loupe sold by Fasttech, direct from China is my new favorite.



It has a much better depth of field than any of my other loupes, and it's only $1.00 more. It uses standard AAA batteries, so you don't have to hunt around the internet (and pay extortion fees) for replacements. DId I mention the depth of field? That's really what sets this one apart, making it significantly easier to see the details.

-Pie

The company 3M makes sanding tapes (sandpaper with adhesive backing) that are rated in Microns. That way you have a much better measure of comparison.

I just purchased some 1 and .3 micron and can get almost to a mirror... I'm still new to this so I expect my results to improve! I don't have the link to the site I bought from, but I think a search for "3M" here should turn up the thread I used for a reference.

-Pie

I cannot quite see the mechanism in those 10x loupes, but here's the picture of the 40x I referenced above.



Below the magnifying glass, you can see the circular battery cap with the words "LOOSE" and "TIGHT" on it. Those two little holes (conveniently, the arrows point at them!) are how you remove the cap. I inserted the tips of a very sharp pair of needlenose pliers into the holes and unscrewed the cap. Weird. It may be that your loupes use a similarly obscure cap setup.

The only real drawback is that the stupid batteries cost more than the loupe itself!

-Pie