PhilipPasteur wrote:


Phil,

I know, I know... It's like driving a new car home from the dealer. Maybe you know what I mean, you park at the far end of the grocery store so no one scratches it with their carts, or you park it in the garage instead of leaving it out. I love the look of the knife. It has a stone wash blade and it is contrasted by a beautiful mirror finished bevel, the best I have been able to achieve. But now, it is time to start driving it in the rain (so to speak) and I need to get a few scratches on it. Because that is why I paid the big bucks for it and decided to carry it to begin with. I have just been having so much fun achieving the best edge and bevel I have ever been able to create.

So now, on to getting some of the use out of it that I wanted to. It's interesting because Grayman who makes it is a military guy and makes his knives to be used under harsh, actually in theater war situations. He sends them out with a very very toothy edge which I polished and sharpened out.

So, consider me properly schooled. Not to sound like a cry baby, but I have been enjoying the sharpening for the sake of perfection on a certain level and now I need to bring some of the skill I have developed into creating a great all round use knife and maybe have it look a bit better than it did at conception.

Thanks for the bucket of cold water, I needed that.

Just for the record, I meant degrees where I used the % key. Sorry about that, let's just call it a brain fart.

ApexGS wrote:


Hey he he he! I love that you think so, I love opening cans of worms.

You guys have raised some good points and offered food for thought. I thought that a shallow bevel automatically made a knife sharper (assuming no rolling of the edge and sharpening to get a burr etc.). But in fact, it is the actual bevel or micro bevel at the apex that cuts. The bevel seems less important, although I would love to be proven wrong on this. I actually forgot about micro beveling when I posted because up to now I have just concentrated on honing the edge and re-profiling to get a shallower bevel than what the factory provided.

I love the look of a mirrored finish, but I have found that the mirror finish also magnifies scratches and it seems that cutting anything coarser than butter, causes scratches to a mirrored edge. So because I like the mirrored finish so much, I found myself carrying a big ol EDC and then hunting down my box cutter to break open boxes, (which I do frequently) because I don't want to mar my beautiful work of art. Kind of like the old saying which was made into a popular song, "never make a pretty woman your wife, or you will regret it for the rest of your life". I don't want my EDC to be too pretty or I don't get the most use out of it. But I still like looking at it, so I do have some knives that I carry from time to time that are black coated with mirror finished bevels. I guess you could think of those as my girlfriends. Yes, I guess you could say, I do cheat on my EDC.

But I need to go back and revisit the mechanics of creating a micro bevel. Of coarse now I have the problem of a thick knife with a very shallow bevel that I re-profiled from a thick maybe 30-35% bevel to a 16% bevel that I now have to re-profile to a thicker bevel. Kind of a waste of good steel and a lot of time. Oh well, live and learn. That is why this forum is so handy to have. I can sometimes learn from the experience and reporting of others who have already made some of the mistakes that I will (or would have made) had I not read about it here.

So thanks for your responses. You never know what might come out of asking a question which may seem at least on the surface to be fairly simple to resolve.

You guys crack me up. This is great. They say your never missed or appreciated until your gone. Well, thankfully I am not gone. This has really become a great little community you guys are almost like the brothers I never had and your words are appreciated. I did read the water stone thread and you did a great job. When I can free up some (actually quite a large sum) money, I will indulge myself with the water stones, based in large part on your work and reports. For now Christmas and holiday travel will prohibit this. Plus as a result of Sandy back east, I have evaluated my survival plan and found it lacking, so I invested in a standby generator. And now my wife wants me to go to Paris (yes, with her) for vacation in the beginning of next year. So only so much to go around for now.

And I am surviving despite my little black screws.

Just curious to get some feedback from our experts here. I made my beater work horse knife into a bit of a prom queen by putting a polished mirror edge on it. It looks fantastic but doesn't really cut like the tool it was meant to be and quite frankly, I am a little hesitant to use it because it looks so nice. It's a big, thick heavy knife. A Grayman Satu for those of you interested. S30v steel so it can take and hold an edge. But now I want to take it back to being my EDC cut any and everything. So, no more mirror for this one. Just curious based on your experience, what grit might you think will give the best cutting edge at about a 16 degree bevel and allow it to stay sharp longer. I want to have the diversity of cutting things with very different textures and densities, from fruit and veggies to cardboard and rope.

I know an ultra low grit like 80 or 100 will give it some real tooth, but I think it will be hard to keep it sharp with daily use and I don't want bits of metal that I see in the micro pictures of the toothy edge that might be flaking off teeny little metal bits in food if I use it to cut and apple for example. On the other extreme, the 1000 and beyond such as ceramics begin to get more for show and less for sharp utility cutting edge. So what might be the best point to get an ultra sharp cutting edge that will cut fruit and cardboard?

I will do a bit of experimenting of course, but I know some of you have already been down this road and was curious of your findings.

wickededge wrote:


Well I am impressed that you even knew I have been absent for a time. I have dropped in to lurk occasionally but haven't been sharpening because of some projects I been consumed by around the house while my wife was in Italy traveling on business.

I do have the smaller black screws. Thanks for the update, I appreciate that you are working on it with all that you have on your plate. It is greatly appreciated. Look forward to getting the proper parts when you can. I think it will make a difference.

There was some talk about replacing the screws that came with the original Pro Pack 2 kits. Has anything been happening with those? I haven't seen anything here or received mine. Was wondering if I missed something. Still waiting to hear from WE.

Thanks guys... I used to be sharper (pun intended)

So I'll just say it, what IS new?

oops, sorry guys, didn't mean to peel a scab. I think because I have more than one computer that I monitor the forum on, the old
- karma must have been cached into the memory or what-ever after I thought it was deleted. I was only joking, making light of something I thought was a bit lighthearted to begin with.

I hope no one took it in any other way. Forums are for free flow of thoughts, ideas, observations, experience, sharing, bragging, having fun, or just killing a bit of time with "friends". There is bound to be differences and even disagreements. Kind of nice to see all the passion and engagement between members, it kinda makes this like a real family in a weird way. I remember some real knock down drag outs with my siblings when I was young, but we always came back together afterward.

He he he.... It'ssssssss baaaaack. there goes all my karma.

Geocyclist wrote:


WOW! That is way cool.

I will also be very interested in your experiences with them. I sure hope you will share what you learn. I really wanted to get some Chosera's but could not pop for the full set since I am sooooooo heavily invested in my PP2 + several extra strops, and two extra sets of ceramics and the 50/80 stones. I was playing with the idea of getting just a set of 5k/10k Chosera's to finish off my mirrored blades after the ceramics. So it will be very interesting to me to hear if you think you actually need to go through the whole Chosera progression or just use the 5k/ 10k after the ceramics to get a nice mirror. Anyway, enjoy and know that I am at least a little jealous.

Andrew,
Which Chosera's did you buy?

Thanks Phil,
I can always count on you to put things in the proper perspective. I guess the truth will be in the actual user experience when I am able to switch out the screws to see if there is less movement. I only bring this up because we (I) are (am) dealing with scratches that are microscopic and in attempting to get that mirror finish with as few visible scratches to my eye possible. When the angle changes, even 0.2 or 0.3 degrees, it can have an effect.

Anyway, as always thanks for your response. I appreciate that you thought it was significant enough to take the time and spend the energy to experiment on your own system to respond.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I was a bit late to the party when it was discovered that the screws that locked the angle guide arms in place did not seat into the dimpled bar under the riser. I sort of think that this is at the core of this problem since the guide arms are being subjected to different dresses and vibrations with each stroke and since they are just depending on friction against the flat part of that steel bar instead of sitting inside a dimple or cup to hold it in place it is inevitable that it will drift a bit this way or that. So that is why between each stone I find that the angle is off enough to effect the flatness and accuracy of the bevel on the blade under the apex.

So, I think that this should be remedied when Clay gets the new guide rod hardware out to lock those arms in place more securely. I think once in effect, when you set the guide rods, you can be confident that they will cause the stones to strike and drag over the blade at a consistent angle each time, assuming the thickness of the stone is within a tiny fraction of the others. As the diamond stones are.

At least I hope this is the case.

Thanks very much for taking time to experiment and report your observations. It is very helpful and appreciated. It certainly shortens the learning curve and at least for some may save money so they don't have to buy stones or accessories they won't need or allows some to add stones that they may not have been aware of or get results that otherwise might have been unobtainable.

This goes to all who take the time to experiment and share. Or just share their knowledge or experience.

A bit off topic I guess, but since I have seen some refer to this as a community, I suppose it might be interesting and even helpful to note if any among us has been effected (or is it affected) by Super Storm Sandy. Since I live in the Pacific Northwest, it hasn't really hit me in any significant way.

However, having said that, it has affected me in one way. I have been watching all those news stories of people standing in line for hours with gas cans or driving to gas stations in other states to get gas for their generators or SUVs. This kind of brought home a point that seems like a good thing. I decided to take the necessary steps toward preparing for a disaster so that I am not one of those people when the "big one" hits my area. We do get occasional snow storm that knocks power out for a day or two where I live, which has been nothing more than an inconvenience for us but we do live in a very earthquake prone area.

So I have purchased a generator and bought 7 five gallon gas cans which I will rotate into my car periodically and I am going today to the Home Depot to buy some 5 gallon water bottles and then perhaps to Costco to buy some non perishable food staples for storage, and extra dog food which may be hard to get in a total shut down.

I live on an island in Washington State, so it is very conceivable that we could be entirely cut off from critical services for an extended period.

So, I am wondering if any of you are doing anything different or anything at all because of what happened in the Northeastern U.S.

At the very least, all my knives will be sharp and ready for survival mode.

Thanks Phil,
Very informative and helpful. I appreciate your sharing this info, even though it may wind up costing me a bunch more now. I see where the Chosera stones are now listed on the website among the top selling accessories.

By the way, you mention that you go back to the 2/3 K Chosera Stones, ( presume before finishing them with the 5K/10K C Stones.

Could you do just as well after going through the diamond progression and then the ceramic progression with the added strokes and then to the 5/10 K C Stones or even just the 10 K C Stone since the micro fine ceramic is pretty close to what the 10 K grit is supposed to be? Or do you really need to go back to the 3 K C Stone and then move forward from there. Also, I guess if you do that why go all the way through the diamonds to ceramics and then to the Choseras. Why not just go from 1000 diamond to 3/4 K Chosera then 5/10 K?

Love the feedback available here. Great job.

I don't know how I could have missed this thread until tonight. Having read all the posts about the set screws not seating in the calibrated dimpled rod beneath the riser, now makes perfect sense why my angle cube is having so much trouble maintaining a consistent setting. This has really been kind of driving me a little crazy, but it now makes perfect sense. Since the set screws are not holding securely because they are just pressing against some part of the bar and I guess some empty space where the dimples are I can see why the constant movement of the grinding motion as you sharpen continuously causes some small movement in the angle of the guide rods.

I definitely need to be on the list of those who need replacement parts to make this right.

I take my hat off to Clay. I know how frustrating it must be because the solution does not seem simple. I guess you can not just replace the screws as they are the wrong size for the calibrated dimples and replaceing the square rod holder has got to be expensive. I hope the company that took the short cut to save money is covering the loss there. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Clay spoke to the guy who made this decision.

Anyway, thanks to the forum members for finding the problem and thanks for Clays response to try to address it in the best way he can. This is why I love this place.

And all this weirdness about karma.... Whaaaaaa. Don't need no stinking karma. If anyone wants mine you are welcome to it. I have already lost most of what I once had. This is just silliness.

Keep up the good discussion, have differences, come to solutions and try to use common sense and courtesy with one another. What's so complicated.

I tend to agree with you Phil, I am going to just relax a little on the minutia and focus on the bigger picture. I guess I have just for most of my life learned measure twice, cut once when it comes to carpentry and other things in life. So here I measure and then verify and find that while nothing has moved, the measurement has changed. I guess this activated the OCD in me. Thanks for the feedback, it is interesting and helpful to me and I hope at least someone else who may read this.