That works, I have done it. Usually I want a bit of "tooth" and this is the goal for me when using this process.
What you do lose is that edge refinement the is really the point (not cosmetics) of working with the finest grit strops.

Better not to cause the problem to begin with!

Balsa does not compress nearly as much as leather... at least in theory they should not cause the effect as much.

Clay has related that he uses quite a bit of pressure when stropping, even to the point of lifting his base up when the strops are treated with alcohol to increase friction. But I he has also talked about decreasing his angles when using the leather.

I find that using light pressure with the finest stropping grits.. letting the abrasive do its job with the least interaction from the media, give me the best results.

Try reducing your angle by a degree or two when using the leather.
If you are not using whisper light strokes, you may be rounding the edge a bit.
With Kangaroo this should not be an issue, it is thinner and has much less give... but you are using the leather first.

There is a thread where this is discussed. It is also something I believe that Clay said that he does with the leather. I have used the technique... but find using very light strokes usually gets me there.

Mikedoh wrote:


Also useful with the low angle extension...which is what sent me off on this quest...

Yes new muscle memory.... until then "sword fighting"...
Throws the whole rhythm off

I got my basic WEPS from Bestsharpeningstones. I got started with the sandpaper by watching something on you tube.. When the guys tat the above web site hosed my order he gave me two 40 piece assortments of the films.
I got prey good with them. Basically scratch free and pretty reflective. Keep in mind, at that time I was going from the 600 grit diamonds... The 800/1K were not even being made, let alone the microfine or superfine ceramics. I impressed myself.. believe me. I think the finest paste that I had was 3.5 micron WEPS..

Just now I found some blades that I had done that way and compared them to some using the Chosera stones through 10K and the 12K Superstones, then stropping down to 0.025 micron spray on Nano Cloth. No comparison really. The older blades were... hanging hair test passing sharp. No doubt. Some of the later knives were not. Still real darn sharp, hair popping, push cutting phone book paper, sharp (probably the differences in steels)... but the reflectivity of the bevel is an order of magnitude greater. Really, nearly bathroom mirror levels. I mean to the point that when you walk into the room with the knife in the vise...that is the first thing that you see because of all of the light bouncing off of the blade bevel... I am serious.

Maybe I should take a step back one day and prep with up to the 1K diamonds and ceramics, then try the lapping papers. I am curious to see if anything can beat (short of ungodly expensive Japanese naturals) the Chosera 10K.

Yes over the last maybe a year, since I read something Clay said about switching directions cutting the scratches down faster... on the OCD blades, I have been alternating between heel to tip edge trailing and tip to heel edge leading strokes for final polishing.

BTW, you can get full 8.5 X 11 sheets of PSA 3M film in sets from the woodworking link posted above and save quite a bit of money. Sure you have to cut them up.. but lots cheaper than buying the pre-cut film as you have been.

Well I finally got those new 416 Stainless Steel precision ground rods threaded.

BTW, they claim it to be shipped in the annealed state, about Brinell 220 which translates to a Rockwell C number of only around 21. Precision ground Diameter tolerance is ±0.0005". Anyway. pretty soft stuff...

Anyway
it is done!


A serious pain, but I got there.
I ordered a "split" adjustable 1/4" NF (28) die. I opened it all of the way up and even stretched it a bit. I then filed a more generous bevel on the ends of the rods. With 200 pounds pressing on the die, I finally got it to bite. I guess persistence pays off sometimes. Rods threaded into the ball joints and lock nut just fine.

Now to get some time to try them out...
One thing I can say from playing just a bit. Technique in stone movement will need to be more deliberate and the tips of the rods pulled to the side with deliberation. The ends of those 12" long suckers seem to want to get tangled up with each other... This will slow me down.. at least until I get the hang of it.


I can see why Clay picked the length that he did for "normal" sharpening jobs with the standard vise.

If you do a bit of searching, all of those have been discussed many times here. It all would be far too much for me to try to type.

Synopsis: Balsa wood, stiffer than leather. Less potential for convexing at the edge. Leather, good stropping material. Razor guys have used it for years. It has some abrasive of its own perhaps making it less suitable for very fine abrasives. Has some "give" so incorrect technique can convex the edge. Kangaroo, very thin and fine grained. Little give and little abrasive of its own. Good for any stropping, but probably makes itself worth the cost with lower grit sizes, around 1 micron and less. Nano cloth, even less give and absolutely no abrasive of its own. Suitable for any abrasive, but really shines with fractional micron abrasives.

The smaller the particle, the lower the grit...yes! Typically the sprays are used in the finer grits. Either Diamond or Cubic Boron Nitride ...Though I have some 30 and 45 micron sprays.

Check out the WIKI:
wickededgeusa.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&Itemid=102

Here are a couple of interesting links from there. Check out the second one... it is a long thread with lots of photos. I talks about different media and abrasives and show the results obtained in some darn good photomicrographs.

What grit/micron should I have mirror polish?

wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_k...id=892&Itemid=63

Here is an excellent thread on how the stops and compounds work with lots of micrographs for illustration.

A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work

www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=c...d=2399&Itemid=63

BTW, I see those toes disappearing down the hole..

loft wrote:


I got that. I wrestled with myself for months before buying the WEPS. It just seemed beyond my budget. One day I couldn't take it anymore and just ordered the darn thing
Back then they didn't have many stone choices available. I think that it was well over a year before I could get the 1K diamonds. The 1200/1600 ceramics were nowhere to be found for quite awhile. You are starting with much more than I had initially!

When they got the Chosera stones in for the WEPS... Well the bug had firmly bitten me... but it was over a year from buying the first two grits before I completed the purchase of the full progression.

I predict that you will feel the giant sucking of the rabbit hole eventually...

Pie,
I have seen much the same when using the 3M lapping films. I haven't done any comparison testing between them and the WEPS ceramic stones.

The big thing that eventually turned me off on them is that they just don't last. It seems that I was changing them every couple of blades. They are relatively cheap, but if you sharpen enough, within a fairly short period of time...you may as well have bought a set of stones..

BTW, PSA stands for Pressure Sensitive Adhesive.
You can get the 3M films with either plain or PSA backing.

mark76 wrote:


You will get a nice sharp edge this way, no doubt. Yes, a Wicked Edge! However, do not be disappointed if you do not get a "mirror" edge with that progression. It is pretty much impossible at those grit levels. (though you might get close by spending hours stropping.. I mean HOURS) Lots of folks have asked on the forums indicating they were not getting the mirror that they were looking for at that level. Usually they think that they are doing something wrong. This is not the case! If you want a mirror, some finer stones with more polishing ability is what you will need.

Don't get me wrong, with what you have you can put some really super edges on steel..
I am just trying to help set expectations, so that you don't think that you are doing something wrong, or that the WEPS is not doing its job when you don't see a mirror on your edge and do see plenty of visible scratches..

Oh,
And welcome to the forms!

I have seen that, especially with Spyderco knives. The Ricasso, the unsharpened part near the pivot, hits on the plastic of the platen. Not usually a half an inch... for me anyway on the knives where it is an issue (most are not), more like a quarter inch.
Some have ground away the plastic to give clearance, some put something between the stone and the platen..
Or, get some thicker stones. (He whispers...Chosera )

I had two unopened bottles... one solid as a rock, the other still OK.
They tell you to squeeze all of the air out of the bottle before storing it..
BUT, there is air in the bottle as it sits on the shelf waiting for you to buy it..

The bottle that was still good, I squeezed all of the air out and put it in the freezer...
Lets see how long it lasts...

Oil based slurries applied to leather made the 77 release. I doubt we would soak any of the stones we use on the WEPS in oil. I will try the #M 77 next time I need to glue stones...

BTW Curtis, did you glue these stones to the stock WEPS paddles with plastic platens?

Interesting..
I tried to use old 77 for gluing leather to wood for bench strops. I had all kinds of problems with edges lifting. I ended up using the original Barge cement. No problems. I didn't even think to try it on the stones, Part of the problem, I think, was the abrasives that I used on the strops... some oil based, some water based. It gave me pause for using it on water stones.

Sure would be lots easier that the Gorilla glue to work with. I have never tried the Gorilla Epoxy on anything.

I would give what you ordered a try and see what you think.
At most it is about speed. Sometimes I go back to the 400 and work up. More often to the 600. Sometime I go from the 1K diamonds to the 1K Chosera stones... Depends on the steel and what I am looking for in the final result... and maybe how much time I have to spend on a blade. It is a matter of how quickly you want to replace the diamond scratches with Chosera scratches.

You may well be happy with what you have coming. Give it a shot.

How are you going to mount it to a paddle??

Have you thought about how you would mount the 140 to use it on the WEPS.
Are you going to cut it in half...lengthwise, and mount the pieces to paddles??


I know what you mean about steady and the EP, especially with a big knife...

I used the EP for a dozen or so knives. I actually got some decent edges.
It was an exercise in concentration and I found repeatability to be difficult..
mostly my fault I am sure.

BTW, I use the belt grinder for large Kukris. Makes them a snap.
No WEPS precision, but they are sharp... and get there mighty fast.

Keep in mind, with stones that thick you will need to make major angle adjustment compared to any of the stock WEPS pieces. There could be some angles that you couldn't duplicate because you run out of base rod length. Granted that should not happen too often, only in the high twenties or more... but it is a potential.

Me, my die grinder, and plastic do not work well together... much less trying to get the damn glue off of the stones. Too much likelihood of a an irreparable mess being the result. A fine file for the plastic and 600 grit wet and dry for the sides of the stones. Takes too much time, but doesn't piss me off when I look at the results.


As you have access to the Water Jet... I would seriously think about as you say doing a "sashimi" on the stones.
It will leave you with a serviceable bench stone and more manageable paddles... both should last for lots of sharpening...lots!

Phil

I guess you do not have the 50/80 plates for the WEPS...
Neither do I, but there have been a few times that I kind of wished that I did.
The belt grinder took care of those issues handily though.
Why did you get the 140 plate for the EP?

I haven't seen published diamond micron sizes for the Atoma plates. If the 140 is rated as other Japanese abrasives with the JIS scale, then 140 is approximately 100 microns. Numbers I have seen for the 80 grit WEPS diamonds is 160 microns. The 50 grit at 330.5. Tom says that the 140 Atoma is more closely related to the XXC DMT which is 120 microns. On the face of it, the 50/80 are much more coarse!

Other factors will influence the results. Maybe most significantly the way the diamonds on the Atoma plates are deposited in a precision sort of pyramid. There are lots of other factors that will come into play.

Having never tried either, I have no first hand experience to relate.

Why do you ask? Thinking about getting some Atoma Plates cut for the WEPS ??

I agree about the fine diamond hones. I don't have the EEF DMT, but have bought some "other" brand fine and extra fine plates. They wore to uselessness faster then I had hoped. In places the diamonds are just gone now.
I have wanted to try the DMT EEF , hoping their coating process was better. Maybe it is, but apparently not that much better...from your results anyway. The EF that I have has been OK, but I tried using it for texturing stones after lapping. That tore it up pretty quickly, so I gave up on that.

I keep thinking about trying the Atoma diamond plates, but the cost versus the amount I would use them has kept me away.

I think I will buy a set anyway, just to see what they do for me...

Phil