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Sharpener and Accessory Maintenance

TOPIC: Chosera stone maintenance

Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11512

  • johpe
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What happened to lapping them on the WEPS diamond plates? I saw a video on YouTube where I think you were doing just that?
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11513

  • jendeindustries
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Right - That was in this video. I lapped them on the WEPS diamonds to show how to do it, but also used the full size Atomas to show how to lap with them as well.

I sharpen quite a few things, so I am in the habit of flattening my stones at least after every session, and sometimes even after every couple of knives if I feel it is necessary. The slight dishing at the lower end of the Choseras (or compounded dishing throughout a progression), however minor, can cause the 10K to "miss" the edge of the edge. I am also very OCD when it comes to using my WEPS, too. (because I can!!) :evil:

For more casual users, lapping is still necessary, although probably not as often.

The nagura stones that come with the full size Choseras are approx 600 grit, and are quite useless, IMO - especially if you have several full size Chosera stones since all grits come with the same 600 grit nagura! They are meant as cleaning stones to help keep dishing to a minimum, but no one I know uses them for that. I tried, and I don't feel it's worth the effort, except maybe on the 600 Chosera :)

You can get slurry stones for the Choseras (if you're interested, let me know), which are small pieces of the same grit, but you can get that on the WEPS simply by rubbing the 2 paddles together. If you leave the white slurry that forms, the stones will be more aggressive, since it is loose abrasive particles, but if you rinse it off, it will be textured, although not necessarily at the same grit as the stone.
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11526

  • mark76
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The reason I use the different plates is to texture the surface of the stones to enhance their performance. […]I have seen differences in the finishes.

Tom, I’m really intrigued by this. At “the” other forum, Ken wrote in a discussion on the same subject:
I haven't read Tom's posts there (and should) but somehow transferring stone scratches to knife edge scratches doesn't sound right - even from Tom (We quibble all the time about sharpening theory.)

The key question to me is: can scratches on a stone transfer to the edge. It seems you say “yes” and Ken says “no”. How come? Who’s right? (Obviously you are right. I can’t see it through my microscope, but I feel it ;-) And I cannot imagine how scratches in abrasive stuff such as a sharpening stone would not transfer to the edge.).

Can you comment on that?

Ken, Phil, it’s not just a matter of OCD for me and “if you like the feel of a nicely textured stone, get the plate”. It’s also the scientist in me who wants to know exactly how it works.
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11529

  • PhilipPasteur
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mark76 wrote:
Ken, Phil, it’s not just a matter of OCD for me and “if you like the feel of a nicely textured stone, get the plate”. It’s also the scientist in me who wants to know exactly how it works.

Scientists "prove" things by experimentation. You need to get some plates and conduct first hand experiments... Maybe you can get a grant or a sponsor..
:evil: :silly:

I am pretty sure you will not satisfy your quest for understanding by asking for opinions..
Especially when, as we have seen, the experts either don't agree, or don't care.
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11532

  • wickededge
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PhilipPasteur wrote:
I am pretty sure you will not satisfy your quest for understanding by asking for opinions..
Especially when, as we have seen, the experts either don't agree, or don't care.

I don't have the level of experience with the Chosera stones that Ken and Tom have - those guys have been at it for a long time. I like the idea of setting up an experiment, should be easy enough to do if one has the time, I've been short on that lately... Once we get into our new space and I can set up a better R&D area, I can do more experimenting again. I've been consumed with design and production for the last 6 months.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11549

  • jendeindustries
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I have seen differences in the finishes.

Mark - I should've added "at the macro level" (I actually did type that initially...) The finish, particularly off the Shapton 8K and 15K, is much cleaner and shinier at the macro level after using the Atoma 1200 to lap them. The Choseras are a little different because they eventually polish anyway, so the longer you use them, the better the finish.

At the micro level, the only main difference I've seen is the cleanliness you can achieve, and this is (IMO) more a direct product of the "critical leap", which is on the 2K-5K on the Shaptons and the 5K-10K on the Choseras. With this in mind, I lap the 5K stones on the 600 Atoma to keep some more of that aggression so that they do a good job cleaning up.

Overall, I think the Shaptons benefit more from the different lapping grits, but it has carried over to both series for me.

Phillip, I wouldn't say experts don't care, but it is more a matter of sometimes having a professionally formed opinion that isn't really worth debating too much :) After all, everything about sharpening is highly subjective!
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11550

  • PhilipPasteur
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Phillip, I wouldn't say experts don't care, but it is more a matter of sometimes having a professionally formed opinion that isn't really worth debating too much After all, everything about sharpening is highly subjective!

Tom,
For clarity. Mark had asked the same question on other forums. The responses "in general" were that the lapping issue was not a concern... People again, in general thought that whatever it was that they were currently doing was fine. I did not at all mean that you or Ken did not care. The statement could have been stated much more clearly, I admit. Perhaps stating, Ken and Tom seem to disagree and others that have been consulted seem to not care one way or another
would have better expressed what I was trying to get across.

I wrote Mark a PM, before I saw your response here, hopefully clarifying what I actually meant.

Sorry for any lack of clarity on my part!

Of course, the part about it all being highly subjective is something that I agree with and part of the point I was trying to convey to Mark.
Phil

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I miss you Buddy!
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by PhilipPasteur.
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11551

  • MattCole
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Where can I buy a base to hold the full size Atoma plates?
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11552

  • PhilipPasteur
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www.woodcraft.com/product/2003115/1667/stone-holders.aspx
OR
www.chefknivestogo.com/nastho.html
I got one like the ones above for about $15 from Amazon or Ebay... can't remember which.
There are lots of different types at lots of price levels. The one I have works fine.

Search for "universal stone holder" or variations. You will find many...
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
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Re: Chosera stone maintenance 1 year 3 months ago #11554

  • MattCole
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Thanks
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