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TOPIC: Need help with technique

Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9918

  • EamonMcGowan
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Need some help? I can get a really sharp edge but not hair whittling or tree topping? The edge is mirror enough to read back newsprint but....
So here is what I do? Lets say re profile? Start with 100 or 200 diamond and work up a burr using a scrubbing motion. Once I have a good burr I switch to the other side and repeat. Check with loupe. I then remove the burr using single strokes with same grit, just enough to remove burr.
I do this all the way to 800. Then I start single strokes till I have a uniform scratch pattern. Check with loupe and same with 1000.
I then start with my choseras at 1000 and single stroke till I have a uniform scratch pattern. Check with loupe. I then do the same with 2k, 3k, and 5k.
Then I strop with 5um leather and then 3.5 usually 100 strokes. All angles with the diamonds, chosera and strops are verified with a cube. Usually 20 degrees. Did a 15 degree last night? really really sharp but not tree top?
Well what do you guys think? Any tips would really be appreciated!!!
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9920

  • Geocyclist
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I don't have much to add. Your process is about like mine.

I raise a burr only at 100. After getting a burr on both sides and I see the "re-profile" is done, I do single alternating strokes each side the entire time from there on.

I have not been able to whittle hair or top it. I think there is some technique to it besides a really sharp knife. Hopefully someone can speak about that.
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9922

  • jendeindustries
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The difference is most likely to do with pressure and the sheer number of strokes on the leather strops. The compression from the leather can cause the slightest bit of rounding at the edge of the edge, which is the difference between tree topping and not.

You can never be too light on the pressure, and it's a little tricky sometimes on the WEPS because the paddles being used in a downward fashion means gravity is heavier, or "against" you on the finest grits.

I would increase the number of passes on the 5K (you can't do too many), getting lighter and lighter as you go, and lower the number of passes on the leather after the 5K to the 3.5 micron only, and only about 10-20 ultra-light passes. This allows the more solid stone to establish the flat bevel, while the soft leather acts more to polish the grooves of the 5K.
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by jendeindustries.
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9923

  • johpe
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I've also read in various posts by other people (amongst them Clay) that it can be recommended to back off 1-2 degrees when stropping with leather strops to avoid rounding the edge. (So if you sharpen at 20 degrees, then when switching to stropping with leather, you change the angle to 21 or 22 degrees.)
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9925

  • KenBuzbee
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I support everything suggested. I also alternate every stroke once the bevel is set (in truth it's just before the bevel apexs but I doubt that really matters)
jendeindustries wrote:
lower the number of passes on the leather after the 5K to the 3.5 micron only, and only about 10-20 ultra-light passes.

This is probably right but I've given up stropping entirely. I just like the edge I get better whether I finish on the micro ceramics or the 12k super stones. Seems a bit more aggressive. That said, I've not tried whittling hair. With my eyes, I can barely even see hair:) But I know how my edges feel in use and I get what I like.

Ken
玉鋼
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9930

  • cbwx34
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johpe wrote:
I've also read in various posts by other people (amongst them Clay) that it can be recommended to back off 1-2 degrees when stropping with leather strops to avoid rounding the edge. (So if you sharpen at 20 degrees, then when switching to stropping with leather, you change the angle to 21 or 22 degrees.)

This is actually backwards... Clay lowers the angle 1 or 2 degrees... so he would drop to 18-19 from a 20 deg. angle.

That being said, while I have tried this, I still get a better edge raising the angle to strop... even though it contradicts the microscope photos Clay has posted... and my own attempts at stropping at a lower angle. (So use what works for you). :)

I think pressure is a big culprit (at all levels, but especially the finishing stones and strops), that's probably what I'd look at first.

All the suggestions so far are good. Ken has a point... you might try testing your edge before you strop, and see what it's like.
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9931

  • johpe
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Yes you're right, I got it backwords in my mind!

The forum posts I was referring to was from this thread:
WE forum thread.

(and actually both lower and higher angles are tested there!!) :P
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by johpe. Reason: Link insert did not work.
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9932

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johpe wrote:
Yes you're right, I got it backwords in my mind!

The forum posts I was referring to was from this thread:
WE forum thread.

(and actually both lower and higher angles are tested there!!) :P

Thanks for posting that, I'd forgotten that I'd asked him to try a 4-5 deg. higher angle. Right now, I'm just doing 1 deg. higher. That's a good thread to review.
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9935

  • EamonMcGowan
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Thank you Everyone! I have learned a lot very quickly! I'm going to go try it out now. I will report back latter this evening.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Re: Need help with technique 1 year 4 months ago #9939

  • nicholas6225
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wcbwx34 wrote:
johpe wrote:
I've also read in various posts by other people (amongst them Clay) that it can be recommended to back off 1-2 degrees when stropping with leather strops to avoid rounding the edge. (So if you sharpen at 20 degrees, then when switching to stropping with leather, you change the angle to 21 or 22 degrees.)

This is actually backwards... Clay lowers the angle 1 or 2 degrees... so he would drop to 18-19 from a 20 deg. angle.

That being said, while I have tried this, I still get a better edge raising the angle to strop... even though it contradicts the microscope photos Clay has posted... and my own attempts at stropping at a lower angle. (So use what works for you). :)

I think pressure is a big culprit (at all levels, but especially the finishing stones and strops), that's probably what I'd look at first.

All the suggestions so far are good. Ken has a point... you might try testing your edge before you strop, and see what it's like.

This is great info.
I use each and every suggestion that's been posted on this thread.
Here is my technique
1.Consistency is key
2.use light even pressure
3.remove burr often (I use a balsa stick which i run along the edge)
4.take your time and pay attention

I managed to use diamond stones 1000 grit, balsa 14&10 paste and leather 5&3.5 paste strops to get a hair whittling edge. I do the same thing as you but I also create a large burr at 1000 grit on both sides, removing burrs with balsa stick and then continue to work both sides at 1000 grit using very, very light pressure. I clean the burr again with the balsa stick gently a couple times. I then switch to my 14&10um balsa strops and after a few strokes I test the edge at several points with a hair, at this point some places are hair whittling. From there I feel the edge by constantly test the edge with a hair and strop with balsa till the entire edge is hair whittling before moving to the leather strops.

I just received micro fine ceramics and nano cloth strops with 1&.25um sprays but have not yet been able to get a hair whittling edge, but I know its because the ceramics are still new and being worked in. It should be possible to get a hair whittling edge on the ceramics in the near future though.

Its a great feeling to get a knife that sharp, have fun dude.
Nick
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