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TOPIC: Stock stone/strop progression (Lots of Pics!!)

Re: Stock stone/strop progression 2 years 1 month ago #1987

  • razoredgeknives
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WOW!!!!!! That is exactly the problem I was having... glad it wasn't just me! That is VERY revealing! Thanks for doing this Tom! I haven't had the money yet to pick up a Veho =).

What I find so interesting is that the scratches from the 14m pasted strop are probably 1/10th of those from the 1k stock diamond stones... this is wild, because the stock stones are rated at 7m! I know I have seen it somewhere, but can you post a link to the thread (you wrote I believe) on how the bonding agents and abrasives play into the micron rating?

Now... I actually picked up some of the 1200/1600 ceramics but still seemed to have that problem... do you think they should actually eliminate the problem? Maybe I wasn't using enough pressure on the strops, because as you said, I was going with the "lighter is better" approach.

Thanks bro... I'll have to skype into your next open call =)
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Re: Stock stone/strop progression 2 years 1 month ago #1998

  • mark76
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This is extremely surprising! Man, this may give new insights into stropping, but for now I find it quite astonishing.

Since you have had a long Skype call on this already, you may have some hypotheses already about what is going on. I can think of only two things that are happening. One is that the diamonds from the paste disappear almost completely in the leather of the strops. And the other is that there is something "wrong" with the stropping compound. Did you already ask the supplier of the paste what they think is going on?

I think this cries out for a repeat experiment with balsa strops (assuming that is the hardest strop there is, I am not sure). Perhaps that would shine some more light. Now I happen to have some balsa strops and 5/3.5 diamond paste... as well as a bursitis :angry: . But as soon as I've recovered I will do that experiment.

Something else that struck me was the influence of an angle change of only 1 degree. At 19 degrees you are really polishing the edge of the edge and not the rest of the edge (so it seems) anymore. I thought that leather, especially with some pressure applied, would be pliable enough to also polish material around the area where it is targeted at directly. But apparently the leather is quite stiff.

This is really interesting stuff! Very interested in other people's experiences and theories!
Last Edit: 2 years 1 month ago by mark76.
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Re: Stock stone/strop progression 2 years 1 month ago #2006

  • wickededge
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Tom, this is fascinating! The effect of leather on the steel is something that I'm working with Sandia National labs on right now. One thing I think I see in your photos (perhaps because I want to see it :P ) is that, as you begin with the strops, the ridges from the stones are flattening out. The more you strop, the flatter they are becoming, long before you begin to see scratches from the diamonds embedded in the strops. I believe this is a burnishing effect produced by the "stiction" of the leather. The surface of the metal is being smeared around, pushing the metal from the peaks into the valleys. An interesting experiment would be to go back to the 800/1000 diamond stones or the ceramics, and then try stropping without any paste at all. I suspect you'll get a similar polishing effect. It would also be interesting to do some cutting tests at each phase.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Stock stone/strop progression 2 years 1 month ago #2008

  • jendeindustries
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Josh, I'm glad this "helped" :lol:

Some comments about what I saw, now that I've had some time to reflect a little.

First, the thought did cross my mind around picture 2c that the paste was not up to spec - but that was immediately cast aside for three reasons: 1) this is Wicked Edge; and 2) I've seen what Clay can do with the pastes (that's why I put the reference picture).

What was immediately apparent was the whole "polishing of the grooves" that was happening with the paste. Again, note just how "White" the picture of the 14 micron paste is compared to the 1K Diamond. If my scratches wee going the the same direction as the stropping motions, I would end up with very cleanly polished scratches, which would make the edge seem to jump in refinement despite the overall depth of the scratches.

The big question to me is why the scratches are so different in size.

Clay, There is definitely smoothing over of the high points of the grooves. The overall lack of speed is probably due to the lack of density of the paste - it's just a thin smear, and the fact that a lot of the paste actually comes off onto the bevel of the knife (especially as more pressure is exerted). When I added more paste, the abrasion speed picked up a bit.

We all know that leather is quite textured - (if you don't already know, read this) B) My first thoughts are that the abrasive is getting "hidden" by the peaks of the leather, causing more shallow scratches. Pressure would still make them cut deeper, though, so that is kind of out.

In theory, the 14 micron should be more aggressive since the whole abrasive particle is exposed, as opposed to a fraction of the abrasive being embedded in the binding of the diamond plate. But this theory looks proven wrong in this case.
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
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Re: Stock stone/strop progression 2 years 1 month ago #2010

  • razoredgeknives
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Well, this begs the question " How do I handle straight razors with this knowledge?" If you put too much pressure on them, the edge will flex away from the strop... not enough and you won't polish out all the deeper scratches, so what to do? Should I just move the rod arms out 1 degree and then use more pressure?

I thought the 14m paste was supposed to leave 14m wide scratches in whatever it is abrading... so why are the 14m scratches so much smaller than the 7m scratches left by the diamond plate? Your's and Clay's expertise is much appreciated!!!

- Josh
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Re: Stock stone/strop progression 2 years 1 month ago #2014

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Have I got a progression for you guys! I don't know that it proves or disproves anything, but it was a blast to do and will give us all a lot to talk about. Krystina Muller from Sharper than New sent in a Global boning knife that a customer of hers had sent in. It had originally been sent to Sur la Table for sharpening which was done on a Chef's Choice machine (I don't know the model.) Here are some before pictures, on by regular SLR and the other by microscope:

Sharpened-by-Sur-la-Table.jpg


unsharpened-230x.jpg


In-the-Sharpener.jpg


And for the finished product:

Wicked-Edge-Sharpened-2.jpg


Next I'll start the progression images.
--Clay Allison
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