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TOPIC: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen

Re: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen 2 years 2 months ago #2933

  • razoredgeknives
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mark76 wrote:
Hi Roger,

Is it just me or does it look like each rod kind of ruined the edge? I can imagine the knife still cuts meat (the edge seems quite toothy), but I cannot imagine it still cuts paper well.

Not ruined... just made more toothy ;) lol. I love toothy edges myself... and I have seen several edges that Clay has done where he will refine the edge up to a mirror finish and then micro bevel a toothy edge of the edge on it. I actually have a lot of experience with the ceramic rod and I love it... it actually does maintain my edge for a much longer amount of time than if I did not use one, and I don't have to whip out my WEPS every few days. I actually try to use it about every other time I use my kitchen knives. It does remove a small amount of steel while not removing too much.

If you want one that will not remove any steel at all but still will align the edge, get a smooth butcher steel. I am assuming the steel you have has the vertical grooves in it? If so, this will actually remove a lot of metal, more than the ceramic will. I have both a smooth butcher steel and a ceramic steel. I prefer the ceramic as I like to remove a minute amount of metal from my edge each time, but to each his own :)

Here you go... check this article out about steeling edges by Chad Ward that I found on the net, may be of some help, especially on how to find the right angle.
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Re: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen 2 years 2 months ago #2934

  • RogerHerbst
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My use of the steel in the pics was with moderate pressure on a cheap knife, to provide an initial demolition of the "steels do not remove metal" theory. This, of course, undermines the credibility of everything we hear about steels. That said, the thousands or meat cutting professionals who walk around with a steel in their belt probably know something (despite lacking microscopes). The many pieces I've read and videos I've watched usually say light pressure should be used, so a lot more testing is needed to show a more optimum treatment.

From past experience (before I got a microscope and sub-micron abrasives and became all scientific), I've observed the following:

A fine diamond stone followed by 2000 grit sandpaper beats the stone followed by a "Diamond steel"

A fine diamond stone followed by an aggressive steeling beats the above. 2000 grit before the steel had little or no effect....no surprise, since the steel obliterates the original edge.

A finely honed blade beats all of the above.

All of this raises more questions than it answers, doesn't it ?
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Re: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen 2 years 2 months ago #2935

  • RogerHerbst
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Hi Josh:

All 3 steels were grooved. I haven't seen any smooth steels around - I'll have to find one.

Nice article you referred to. I still need to do some testing, though.

As for your comment about a "toothy" edge, I suspect it's partially true, but there may be another force at work. The steel grooves act like a file, carving microscopic shavings off the edge. These resulting shavings, and the substrate they were shaved off, can be VERY sharp.

Unfortunately, I don't think my cheap microscope can resolve the cutting edge well enough to visually ascertain sharpness, so in the end, I'll need to do more subjective testing - like slicing tomatoes and carrots
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by RogerHerbst. Reason: Clarification
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Re: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen 2 years 2 months ago #2936

  • mark76
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razoredgeknives wrote:
mark76 wrote:
Not ruined... just made more toothy ;) lol.

So you put a microbevel on the edge using a rod? That seems quite a different use of the rod that Chad Ward writes about and as a always understood the use of a rod. Ur izzit me? (Accent Inspector Clouseau.) :dry:
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by mark76.
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Re: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen 2 years 2 months ago #2937

  • RogerHerbst
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I presume you're referring to my statement "convex bevel starting at 17 deg and tapering to 18.5 degrees" - That was referring to how I currently fine hone my good knives. I am not currently steeling them.
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Re: Sharpeners and steels in a real life kitchen 2 years 2 months ago #2955

  • Allgonquin
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As the title of the thread is a "real life kitchen" I'll chime in. I have had very good service from my Henckels kitchen knives with my WEPS 18 degree edges taken through the 1000 grit WEPS diamond stones. The edge lasts a good while. When I feel it going off, I will use a Henckels steel with a very light pass, twice on each side, alternating LRLR. Very light pressure. IMHO it does a good job of straightening an edge which has either started to roll or become somewhat rolled.

I prefer a somewhat toothy edge for kitchen work, so I stop at the 1000 stones for these knives. (Although I would try the WEPS ceramics, I've had the 1200/1600 pair on back order so long I wonder if my order is still in the hopper!)

I do marvel at the levels of almost "scientific" sharpening that folks are doing, and the documentation of the progressions - while I have an academic interest in this, I'm not a fanatic and don't have the patience for this in my "real life". But I appreciate the work and learn a lot.

So one vote for the steel, on my kitchen knives, used when appropriate.
Allgonquin

Objects in closer are mirror than they appear
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