Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5098

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1260
  • Thank you received: 413
  • Karma: 92
StevenPinson wrote:
PhilipPasteur wrote:

Interesting thing about the Internet. You get one person that is respected say something, then everybody starts saying the same thing over and over. Yes the common wisdom seems to be that you "NEED" an entire set of stones from the same brand/line or no one can get good results.

Phil you are all over it. :woohoo: The "ART" of sharpening.

The opposite is also true... where that same "expert" will start saying a particular stone (usually a finish stone) is the "must have" stone to get your knife truly sharp. :side:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5099

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1260
  • Thank you received: 413
  • Karma: 92
jendeindustries wrote:
Technique plays a huge role in those results as well.

I think it's the most important factor, even on a guided system.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5101

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1260
  • Thank you received: 413
  • Karma: 92
PhilipPasteur wrote:
I may just try to find that book... sounds like a good read!

Here's a link to that book I mentioned...

www.amazon.com/The-Art-Japanese-Sword-Po...770024940/ref=sr_1_1
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5102

  • KenBuzbee
  • KenBuzbee's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 397
  • Thank you received: 110
  • Karma: 22
PhilipPasteur wrote:
Some great threads, especially this last one contained some good omparisons. Thanks!

I feel the seeds of obsession starting;)

Related question... How does the "smoothness" of the edge impact durability?

Ken
玉鋼
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5108

  • KenBuzbee
  • KenBuzbee's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 397
  • Thank you received: 110
  • Karma: 22
jendeindustries wrote:
However, if you were looking for more robustness, you could simply get a knife plenty sharp by making large jumps that "polish the grooves"

Please define "robustness"
cbwx34 wrote:
jendeindustries wrote:
Technique plays a huge role in those results as well.

I think it's the most important factor, even on a guided system.

That makes perfect sense as a lighter touch, even with diamonds, will yield scratches that are shallower....

Ken
玉鋼
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5110

  • PhilipPasteur
  • PhilipPasteur's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Phil
  • Posts: 944
  • Thank you received: 233
  • Karma: 66
[quote="KenBuzbee"

I feel the seeds of obsession starting;)

Related question... How does the "smoothness" of the edge impact durability?

Ken[/quote]

That is one I will leave for somebody like perhaps BassLakeDan to cover.
I can say that you can read opinions on this that run the gamut. For a long time it seemed to me that most people were saying that a smooth (non-toothy) edge would be more durable. Recently I have read of sharpening gurus claiming the opposite. In any case it still seems like it would be related to what the knife is being used for and the steel it is made from and the angle you are shapening at. Besides that, without a reliable means of measuring sharpness the answer becomes more of an opinion than a fact. This is why I mention Dan, he has this. I don't have any reliable and repeatable method of measuring sharpness, so I can't answer this question quantitatively.

In the end it becomes pretty simple though, you sharpen the blade for a given task, then resharpen it when it gets dull. In general, if you pick the right steel for what you want to do and sharpen properly, you will get the longest period between required sharpening.

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5114

  • KenBuzbee
  • KenBuzbee's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 397
  • Thank you received: 110
  • Karma: 22
PhilipPasteur wrote:
For a long time it seemed to me that most people were saying that a smooth (non-toothy) edge would be more durable. Recently I have read of sharpening gurus claiming the opposite.

Exactly, I've been reading the same shift. In my mind, it seems as though teeth would round off more quickly, but there may be other factors that come into play.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
In the end it becomes pretty simple though, you sharpen the blade for a given task, then resharpen it when it gets dull. In general, if you pick the right steel for what you want to do and sharpen properly, you will get the longest period between required sharpening.

Ultimately, this is right but it seems like there would be general trending that applies to 60% 70% 80% of EDC tasks.... If only for each steel, like S90V or CPM M4 (generally considered good edge holders).

You hit on a key point that sharpness, even if quantitatively measured is subjective as to the type of edge desired. Still, it's interesting to hear people's experiences.

Ken
玉鋼
Last Edit: 2 years 2 weeks ago by KenBuzbee.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5118

  • PhilipPasteur
  • PhilipPasteur's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Phil
  • Posts: 944
  • Thank you received: 233
  • Karma: 66
[quote="KenBuzbee" post=5114
Ultimately, this is right but it seems like there would be general trending that applies to 60% 70% 80% of EDC tasks.... If only for each steel, like S90V or CPM M4 (generally considered good edge holders).
Ken[/quote]

How would you propose that anyone would get the raw numbers to calculate those percentages?
Way too many variables and no hard data. The steels that you list are fairly rare, making data even more scarce. My EDC tasks are undoubtedly different than yours. A buddy of mine cuts wire and strips insulation quite frequently, another cuts up old carpet most every day ... Probably the best you can hope to get is someone's opinion based upon what they have seen and what they do with their blades.

IMHO

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5120

  • jendeindustries
  • jendeindustries's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 326
  • Thank you received: 113
  • Karma: 34
Here's where we begin to search deeper into the rabbit hole :)

Before I define "Robustness", it would be better to answer about the smoothness of an edge and its impact on durability.

As with all things sharpening, it depends. Smoothness is only one of several factors that will determine the outcome to whether or not a smoother edge lasts longer. Geometry plays one of the largest roles, as well as the steel characteristics.

That's all I can say for now - I will be back in a few hours to further answer!
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: diamond vs naniwa super vs ceramic vs shapton etc 2 years 2 weeks ago #5121

  • PhilipPasteur
  • PhilipPasteur's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Phil
  • Posts: 944
  • Thank you received: 233
  • Karma: 66
Now things will get interesting (in a few hours) !!
This is one of those opinions based upon experience that is worth listening to!

That damn rabbit hole...:dry:

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
Last Edit: 2 years 2 weeks ago by PhilipPasteur.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.163 seconds