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TOPIC: Standard arms

Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7271

  • PhilipPasteur
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www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=c...=7173&Itemid=63#7175

Some of the above was taken out of context. Seems like a tactic to make a point, rather than tell the entire story.

From Clay, same post that was extracted above:

"Personal experience

I just returned from the New York Custom Knife Show where I sharpened several hundred knives over the weekend. I alternated between using the Pro-Pack 2 and the Pro-Pack 1 throughout the show. Neither the customers nor I saw any difference in sharpness or edge appearance from one system to the next. The main difference is in the way the units feel to use, the range of angles available and the ability to adjust the angle to a very fine level with the Pro-Pack 2. All the knives sharpened, regardless of which kit I used, were equally sharp and equally beautiful."


From Bob Nash, same thread:

"I continue to be extremely happy with my original arms - I own both sets and use them both, but I use my original arms much, much more, getting amazing results with no visible faceting or angle variance showing up. I use my ball joint arms primarily with my choseras and shaptons, to match the angles more precisely.

My advice for folks has been basically - if you are going to be sharpening straight razors or know that you are going to be working with natural/manufactured wetstones that are going to wear with use then you should probably go for the ball joint arms right away. They are also a must for piece of mind if you know you are going to want the most consistent angle you can possibly produce no matter the thickness of the stone or strop you are using. If you aren't in that group, start with the basic Wicked Edge Sharpener kit. You are going to have more angle consistency and control and you are going to get results that can't be achieved with nearly any other system out there and you are most likely going to be very happy."


That is a bit more of the story on the Arms.

There are those among us that are never really satisfied and feel the need to tinker with something good to try to make it "better". I am in that group BTW. The oringinal arms are plenty good, and will yeild excellent results without modification. I used them on 100s of knives over about a year and a half, and was thrilled with the results, as were my customers.

BTW, checking for discussions on this forum does not give any indication of what the general population that has purchased the WEPS system is concerned about. In this context, I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people owning the WEPS that have worried about arm play with the original joints, much less actually modified them, is very low. This means that even though the subject has come up here and a "few" have posted about it, it does not mean that the difference has been significant to the vast majority of the WEPS users.

Phil
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Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by PhilipPasteur.
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7281

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TedS wrote:
Unit came directly from WE. I incorrectly assumed that they would update the stock arms with the washer and screws for all new units or at least add them to the shipment for self install.

Sorry Ted, it seems this will never happen, even though it's a great idea.

It's an "if your not happy" service!

Now I'm in the spotlight for being honest.
I see Clay thanked the post above, but still hasn't commented in this thread?
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7283

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Billabong wrote:
TedS wrote:
Unit came directly from WE. I incorrectly assumed that they would update the stock arms with the washer and screws for all new units or at least add them to the shipment for self install.

Sorry Ted, it seems this will never happen, even though it's a great idea.

It's an "if your not happy" service!

Now I'm in the spotlight for being honest.
I see Clay thanked the post above, but still hasn't commented in this thread?

I'm away with my family for the weekend without my computer and giving long answers on my phone is a big challenge. In a nutshell, we may eventually have all the Basic Kit units shipping with the screws and washers, but it's a slow process with our factory to get that done, so we probably won't see them shipping that way until the second half of next year. I don't personally find it to be a problem but do recognize that others do, hence the option to send yours in for us to mod, if you're not satisfied with the arms as they are.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7284

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PhilipPasteur wrote:
BTW, checking for discussions on this forum does not give any indication of what the general population that has purchased the WEPS system is concerned about.

I’m sure it’s better than just guessing? ;)
In this context, I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people owning the WEPS that have worried about arm play with the original joints, much less actually modified them, is very low.

So you are willing to “bet” about knowing peoples thoughts?
This means that even though the subject has come up here and a "few" have posted about it, it does not mean that the difference has been significant to the vast majority of the WEPS users.
Phil

Does it need to be the “vast majority”?
I can appreciate that you feel like you need to defend this Phil, but it’s all a bit silly really. :P:
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by Billabong.
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7285

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wickededge wrote:
I don't personally find it to be a problem but do recognize that others do, hence the option to send yours in for us to mod, if you're not satisfied with the arms as they are.

Thanks Clay, if there was an option to add this service to the shopping basket or simply order it through a dealer this would be great.

Perhaps a leaflet in the WEPS box?

Is there a cost involved?
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7288

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Billabong wrote:
wickededge wrote:
I don't personally find it to be a problem but do recognize that others do, hence the option to send yours in for us to mod, if you're not satisfied with the arms as they are.

Thanks Clay, if there was an option to add this service to the shopping basket or simply order it through a dealer this would be great.

Perhaps a leaflet in the WEPS box?

Is there a cost involved?

We charge fifteen dollars for the MOD. I like the idea of adding the option to shopping basket and I'll explore it.

The reality is that there will always be room for improvement with the machine, just as you went on to explore even better ball joints and some modifications to the ergonomics which sound very interesting. I definitely listen to those ideas and keep an eye on making the sharpener the best I can. Sometimes the innovations take a while to roll out, from concept, through design and prototyping to actual production and then apparently recall :) since all the other parts of the business need attention too.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7290

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I'm going to agree with Phil and Bob here, as well. I probably should have noted in my first answer that I modify almost everything I own to improve it in some way. It's almost an obsession since I love to tinker. Not that there was anything wrong with the arms when they came, there wasn't. I had seen a few vids on YouTube with a few of the mods that people were doing before I actually bought mine. Jdavis being one of those uploaders that convinced me to buy as well. I had stumbled on to his sharpening vids and enjoyed his insights. I have since learned to trust the community here also since they have been extremely helpful on all fronts and have a lot more experience than I do.
Anyway, I used my stock arms through a few knives to get a feel for the system and gain some proficiency with the system so when I did modify it, I had a baseline to use to see if it actually made a difference. The modifications did make a difference, but if I hadn't used it before making those changes, I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference, because the difference it made was so small. Technique will make much more of an improvement in your edges. While you're still breaking stones in, which you probably will be for a few knives still, the washer modification won't really make any appreciable difference, especially while the system is still so new to you. My stones (well, diamonds) are just starting to get where I feel like they are really broken in, and I've run at least 50-75 sharpening cycles on them. I put it that way because some have been my own knives being re-profiled to differing bevel angles as test's and some have been friends knives I did for free just to get some more steel under the diamonds. Because of this I really don't have an accurate count but there have been at least 30-35 of my own knives and 15-20 of others knives. I will say that you can feel the diamonds starting to settle in after only a few knives, maybe as few as 5-10 sharpening cycles. Obviously, this will vary based on time spent at each grit level, as already pointed out, and also the types of steel might have an effect also. I'm not sure about that since the diamonds are so much harder than the steel, a few degrees of Rockwell hardness in differing steels shouldn't make much difference, but since we are talking about break in and essentially getting rid of any loose diamonds inherent in the manufacturing process, that might actually make a difference. Others here can chime in on that aspect.
I will say this, you will be getting spectacular edges very soon, just keep at it. Watch videos of others sharpening to hone (pun intended)your own technique and get some knives in your vice. It will get so much better and easier really fast. My edges are so good now, I am constantly bragging to people around me and showing my knives off. My son-in-law wants me to do his Henkels Professional S set that he won't take to a "professional" sharpener because he doesn't want to risk them getting messed up. If you knew how anal he is with his stuff, you'd know what kind of testament it is to the systems capability, because it really is the system more than my expertise since I've only had my WEPS for less than 2 months. I have to stop myself sometimes because I want to put a polished edge on everything, just because I can. but you learn quickly that a polished edge, while beautiful, isn't the best edge for everything. but that's for another discussion.

I guess I could have just said: Keep at it and don't worry too much about the arms. They're good just the way they are. Your edges will get better really soon.

Hope this helps you out some...
Particpant in finding out how sharp is sharp!
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by xuzme720.
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7291

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Not worth it.
Phil

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Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by PhilipPasteur.
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7292

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wickededge wrote:
Billabong wrote:
TedS wrote:
Unit came directly from WE. I incorrectly assumed that they would update the stock arms with the washer and screws for all new units or at least add them to the shipment for self install.

Sorry Ted, it seems this will never happen, even though it's a great idea.

It's an "if your not happy" service!

Now I'm in the spotlight for being honest.
I see Clay thanked the post above, but still hasn't commented in this thread?

I'm away with my family for the weekend without my computer and giving long answers on my phone is a big challenge. In a nutshell, we may eventually have all the Basic Kit units shipping with the screws and washers, but it's a slow process with our factory to get that done, so we probably won't see them shipping that way until the second half of next year. I don't personally find it to be a problem but do recognize that others do, hence the option to send yours in for us to mod, if you're not satisfied with the arms as they are.

You don't find it to be a problem but as I mentioned, a strong influencer (jdavis882) did. I bought a WE based on his recommendation (WE vs EdgePro). In all due respect, his video showing the mods you made with washers and screws was 8 months ago. Seems you might have the wrong factory.
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Re: Standard arms 1 year 4 months ago #7295

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For clarity!
I'm not getting paid for comment. ;)

I'm "not" saying you can't sharpen your knives with the old arms.

I saw this as a problem straight away when "I" bought my WEPS.
Not with the idea, or that there were ball joints on the horizon.

My problem was with the manufacturing quality of the universal joint, as a person with some mechanical knowledge it was a disappointment to see how loose this joint was.
Siiting the stone against the knife edge and watching the angle variation was not something I expected from a big dollar "guided" sharpening system.
I drilled and tapped the holes and fitted screws etc.
But the machined faces of the joint were not parallel, so it would still grip at different points of rotation.
Then I also wondered why the arm had so much play in the paddles and discovered that this would be addressed with the ball joint upgrade also.

This is not my imagination or a conspiracy to discredit WE, it's basic fact!
I find it strange that I am considered OCD for thinking this.

Of course you can accept that this is as good as is gets and adjust your technique to allow for it?
It seems that is what some want you to do.
You can sharpen a knife with a rock or a coffee cup, let's not use the "I still get great results" line.

It's simply about adding more cost to something that is already considered expensive.
Let's keep the politics out of this and work towards a solution?

I guess first we need to be allowed to call it a "problem"?
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