Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: I tried something different...thoughts?

I tried something different...thoughts? 1 year 7 months ago #5186

  • WayneReimer
  • WayneReimer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 8
Most of the knives in my collection fall into the more "tactical" styling, and I pocket carry at least one per day. I use all of my knives regularly, and none too gently, so my needs for an edge are dictated by overall usability, sharpness, and durability. Appearance ( i.e. polish) is a secondary concern.

I have a number of Striders of various sizes depending on the job I may need to do. Lately, I've been carrying a mini SJ75 a lot. This is a bit of a polarizing design; some love it, some hate it (looks wise), but the ergonomics are superb, and it's a tremendous little knife. The problem is that it's a knife that, to me anyway, screams for a polished edge, so of course you lose a bit of cutting ability with a good polish. I should mention that my standard for a good polish is different than many of you; for me a good polish stops at 1000 grit, with stropping to 1 micron followed by bare kangaroo leather.

Yesterday, I re-profiled this knife from 22 degrees per side to 20, and took it to my "polished" standard. It was extremely sharp, however I'd lost the tooth that I like to have for things like zip-ties, etc.

In an attempt to solve this, I re-mounted the knife ( I use a Field and Sport, BTW), set the arms at 22 degrees ( remember the knife is now at 20 degrees) and did one pass, tip to heel with a 1000 grit stone.

There is no visible difference, naked eye. With a ten power loupe I can see it pass, but barely. Cutting performance however is improved. I have some tooth back and cutting zip-ties ( which I seem to be doing a lot of lately) is noticeably easier.

My question is this; what other ideas do you have for having a polished edge that still has some tooth? I've tried stopping at a lover grit stone and stropping from there, but the toothiness is muted by the stropping. It seems to me that re-introducing some fresh tooth after the strop like this gives a bit more "bite" to the cut, but I'm sure curious about others experiences
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: I tried something different...thoughts? 1 year 7 months ago #5188

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • WE Stonehenge?
  • Posts: 1240
  • Thank you received: 390
  • Karma: 92
Your idea is a good one. You might also try stropping at a lower angle than what you sharpened at... if you read Clay's posts with microscope pics... that indicate stropping at the same angle rounds over the edge.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: I tried something different...thoughts? 1 year 7 months ago #5191

  • PhilipPasteur
  • PhilipPasteur's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Phil
  • Posts: 944
  • Thank you received: 233
  • Karma: 66
Hey CBW. I have seen the rounding thing mentioned based on some 800X migrographs that Clay did. I have a question. I will go back and see If I can find the exact thread and ask there too.
Is what we are seeing "rounding" the edge, or is it the micro-convexing that is epected, and often sought after, when using leather?

I have seen videos out there by respected sharpeners that insist that you "need" to do a bit of stropping on a bench strop to get the maximum sharpness and durability for your edge. I have tried decreasing the angle, it seems to work OK, but so far I haven't noticed any real detectable difference in my edges. I guess this is why I need to build one of Dan's testing jigs...

I know that Wayne is not looking for the HHT type edge that Clay was only getting with stropping using specific media. So my thought for Wayne, have you simply tried not stropping at all? I think that this goes to the polishing the grooves concept that Tom was talking about. But if the polish is not getting you what you need...


In the above picture you can see that even if coming from 600 grit, stropping with 1 micron on leather eliminates most of the tooth. That was from one of Clays progressions.

www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=c...14&id=4705&Itemid=63

This may be why you need to go back and do a 1000 grit microbevel to get the agressiveness back.


One other thing, have you tried stropping with a higher grit, perhaps 6 micron or above. I have found that stropping at 6 micron (the coarsest that I have)leaves my 1000 grit edges seemingly sharper, but still pretty aggresive for cutting harder materials. I have not done this with S35V so your mileage may vary on that one. It has worked on some of my S30V Spyderco working knives. I intend to try it with the M4 blade I just got.

Ken Schwartz has some coarse stopping compounds that I want to try. 15 micron or 30 and 45 micron comes to mind. Also WEPS has the 14 micron paste. I have been meaning to try some of these to use on the edges where I need tooth.

If you get a chance to try any of these, please let us know how it goes.

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by PhilipPasteur. Reason: added pic
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: I tried something different...thoughts? 1 year 7 months ago #5192

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • WE Stonehenge?
  • Posts: 1240
  • Thank you received: 390
  • Karma: 92
PhilipPasteur wrote:
Is what we are seeing "rounding" the edge, or is it the micro-convexing that is epected, and often sought after, when using leather?

I don't know... but either way, if it's killing the edge he wants, it's not a good thing. :) I guess it all depends on the edge desired... a stropped edge will do things a "toothy" edge won't, and vice versa.

The other thing I forgot to mention earlier, is you can also try polishing the blade out with a stone instead of a strop (since a polished edge is desired). The MicroFine stones leave a decent polish edge that still has some "bite", as do some of the other types of stones sold. You could also try balsa (I haven't, so don't know what the result would be) or polishing tapes on glass or aluminum blanks (I have done that with other methods, and this has worked well).

Just some ideas!
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by cbwx34.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: I tried something different...thoughts? 1 year 7 months ago #5194

  • PhilipPasteur
  • PhilipPasteur's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Phil
  • Posts: 944
  • Thank you received: 233
  • Karma: 66
cbwx34 wrote:
PhilipPasteur wrote:
Is what we are seeing "rounding" the edge, or is it the micro-convexing that is epected, and often sought after, when using leather?

I don't know... but either way,

My concern is the term "Rounding" the edge. That is pretty much absolutely the opposite of what you want to do when sharpening. Since Clay posted some photos that show a change at the edge when stropping and mentioned that he was reducing his angles when stropping, I have seen several people write about rounding the edge being the result of stropping on the WEPS. I am real curious as to whether that is an accurate description... or not. Certainly if someone reads that without knowing the background, it has to be a concern!

I sure don't want to round my edges. I can do that when cutting things over time. In the case of the edges that I have stropped, rounding does not seem to happen. More so the micro convexing scenario. The pic I posted previously sure does not show evidence of rounding...

Of course, I have been wrong before (a couple of times) :)

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: I tried something different...thoughts? 1 year 7 months ago #5195

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • WE Stonehenge?
  • Posts: 1240
  • Thank you received: 390
  • Karma: 92
You're right, and this is something that I've thought about too... what happens to the very edge with leather? And you're also right, the picture above doesn't appear to show rounding, although I don't know how Clay stropped that particular example.

My point in this case was that whatever is going on, is killing the edge of the original post. The fact that he wants a polished edge with some "bite" was what I was basing the suggestions on.

Also, rounding or smoothing the edge isn't specific to the WE... it's talked about with all methods.

Good points... hopefully others will weigh in on this.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.147 seconds