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TOPIC: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones?

Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 3 months ago #8665

  • Geocyclist
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Ken,

Thanks for the info. I guess my technique wasn't that good early on. The Cutco's were my first knives to sharpen on the WE, and also the ones that took the breaking in of the diamond stones.

For everyone else what I have learned is use the 50/80 sparingly/cautiously. I find I don't need them more than I think. Now that my diamonds stones are broken it the 100 feels smooth, almost like the 200, but it still cuts fast enough for pocket knives. The 50/80s are broken in now too. I feel now they don't remove as much material as when virgin, but still leave deep scratches. Last time i used them I spent a lot of time on the 100 and 200's to get the deep scratches out. My opinion now is for small to medium pocket size knives with thin blades 100's will get the job done and save the work of getting deep scratches out of a fine blade. For me they still have a place with re-profiling very large, and very thick blades.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by Geocyclist.
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 3 months ago #8668

  • KenSchwartz
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Yes it is worth emphasizing that all diamond lapping plates go through a break in period. Initially, the finish is coarser and more irregular and more aggressive. After breaking, it is more consistent but looses that initial aggression. Why waste it? Use that initial breaking for flattening some coarse stones or roughing in a big bevel. Be aware of some loose diamond stones from a plate causing errant scratches or getting mixed into the mud on a stone.

---
Ken
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 3 months ago #8671

  • blacksheep25
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As has been pointed out, the 50/80 stones will leave deep scratches, and IMHO, I wouldn't try and raise a burr with those coarse stones either. I'm trying to figure out a good way of explaining what I'm thinking... okay, say you have a 3 layer cake which represents you knife to sharpen, and your end goal is to re-profile (or just sharpen) such that when you are done (e.g. 50/80->100/200...1200/1600->strops), you would end up removing all three layers. So do you take the 50/80 and grind through all three layers? Or do you perhaps use the 50/80 to cut through say most of the top layer. Then you use the 100/200 to cut part way through the middle layer, then the 400/600 for the rest of the middle layer; then 800/1000 and you're starting to cut into the bottom layer. To further clarify, say the 50/80s cut scratches that are 1-1/2 layers deep, if you go all out and burn through most of the 3 layer cake, you're going to be there a long time remove scratches, which is what people have been saying.

So my approach would be to not try to get 100% of the re-profile done with the coarse stones; instead I'll try to get 80% there with the 50/80, then switch to the 100/200 to get to 90%, then the 400/600 to get to 93%, then 800/1000 to get to 95%... until you get to your final edge/finish at 100%.

Using the above method, I'm not hitting the last 1/32" of the edge until I get to the 400/600 stones. Sometimes I under estimate, and have to go back to a coarser grit, but the more I practice, the better (easier) it is to figure out when it's time to go to a finer stone. I've also found that making cross hatch scratches makes it easier to monitor the progress of the re-profile.
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 3 months ago #8679

  • cbwx34
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blacksheep25 wrote:
As has been pointed out, the 50/80 stones will leave deep scratches, and IMHO, I wouldn't try and raise a burr with those coarse stones either. I'm trying to figure out a good way of explaining what I'm thinking... okay, say you have a 3 layer cake which represents you knife to sharpen, and your end goal is to re-profile (or just sharpen) such that when you are done (e.g. 50/80->100/200...1200/1600->strops), you would end up removing all three layers. So do you take the 50/80 and grind through all three layers? Or do you perhaps use the 50/80 to cut through say most of the top layer. Then you use the 100/200 to cut part way through the middle layer, then the 400/600 for the rest of the middle layer; then 800/1000 and you're starting to cut into the bottom layer. To further clarify, say the 50/80s cut scratches that are 1-1/2 layers deep, if you go all out and burn through most of the 3 layer cake, you're going to be there a long time remove scratches, which is what people have been saying.

So my approach would be to not try to get 100% of the re-profile done with the coarse stones; instead I'll try to get 80% there with the 50/80, then switch to the 100/200 to get to 90%, then the 400/600 to get to 93%, then 800/1000 to get to 95%... until you get to your final edge/finish at 100%.

Using the above method, I'm not hitting the last 1/32" of the edge until I get to the 400/600 stones. Sometimes I under estimate, and have to go back to a coarser grit, but the more I practice, the better (easier) it is to figure out when it's time to go to a finer stone. I've also found that making cross hatch scratches makes it easier to monitor the progress of the re-profile.

Sounds like a good plan of attack (and explanation), and you're right, you definitely want to try and avoid reaching the edge with the 50/80g stones.
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 2 months ago #9006

  • MatthieuMethot
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Great info once again. This forum has made it so much more enjoyable to get through the learning curve. I just wanted to ask some of the people that have the 50/80 stones if they found any irregularity's in the thickness of the stone on the platens one of my 50s is a full 16th out of the platen then the other end of the same stone. I think i saw some one else had a video on you tube with the same problem or is it a problem when starting with such a cores stone? should I call we?
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 2 months ago #9008

  • blacksheep25
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MatthieuMethot wrote:
I just wanted to ask some of the people that have the 50/80 stones if they found any irregularity's in the thickness of the stone on the platens one of my 50s is a full 16th out of the platen then the other end of the same stone.

Can you post a pic of all your stones lined up next to each other; from your post, sounds like it should be a noticeable difference between the 50/80 and all the others?
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 2 months ago #9018

  • cbwx34
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I would think if it's that far off, you'd be able to tell in use? I measured mine, and there's no real difference like that. I'd definitely pay attention to how it works, if you can't tell then no biggie, but if it is that big a difference, I'd consider replacing it.
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 1 year 2 months ago #9020

  • Geocyclist
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I haven't noticed any problems. If its really out and causes a problem I think WE would replace it.

Since having mine now for a while I use them sparingly. The 100's do fine for most of my folders. I will use the 50/80s in the future when I have a ton of material to remove on thicker spines. And then try not to raise a big burr with them.
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 4 months 2 weeks ago #14995

  • LukasPop
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LukasPop wrote:
TedS wrote:
LukasPop,
How many knives did it take to wear down your 100 grit to be finer than your 200? Thought I read somewhere that the diamonds would be to sharpen around 500 knives.
Hi TedS, I did about 25 reprofiles. If you don't need to reprofile, the amount of work is much less. The edges after 100 grit look very well under microscope now, but the speed of reprofiling is reduced. I don't know how long this state will persist. But it seems to me that diamonds are rounded only, not removed from the base, so I think they have much time ahead. I suppose finer grits to endure very long as you don't use (you shouldn't) pressure when refining the edge.
Good news. I have washed my stones thoroughly with dishes cleaner and old toothbrush, and my 100s cuts much faster now :-)
Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by LukasPop.
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Re: Who uses 50 and 80 Ultra/Extra Coarse Stones? 4 months 2 weeks ago #15010

  • DAUG
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Yep, sonic cleaning does the same thing in less time as well. Note when cleaning, only submerge the face of each grit surface, don't submerge the whole paddle as it may cause damage to the adhesive that holds the diamond plates in place.
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