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TOPIC: Problem with low angle adapter

Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17113

  • gwelsby
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Josh,
I see that (and have seen it!) but it does not match the case where I can see sharpening right to the edge on both sides, no?
I'm grateful for your offer to replace parts which I have damaged, but I have to pay tax on the value of the goods AND the shipping for anything sent here from the States. I shall be there in October (or even in transit at MIA on the 29th inst.) so we can sort it then. In the meantime can I not just flatten the bent items with 1000 grit wet and dry?
All the best,
Gerald.
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Re:Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17114

  • razoredgeknives
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I don't work for wicked edge, Gerald :-) I was saying that they will take care of you and you need to get with their team to get it worked out... If it is bent then they will send you a new one.

So is your vise indeed bent?

Josh
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Re:Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17115

  • gwelsby
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Josh,
take a look. These pictures are taken using my $30 supposedly 200x microscope.
DirectlyDownOnJaws.jpg


ViceJustAboveRiser.jpg


TopCorner1.jpg


TopCorner2.jpg


TopCorner3.jpg


What would you say? Btw, I mistook WE for we in your last post!
Gerald.
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Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17116

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Np!

I can't really tell unless it is zoomed out :-) it should look similar to this (although mine is made from tool steel)



Josh
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Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17117

  • tcmeyer
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Excellent observations, Josh.

But back to the issue of the knife leaning to one side. I have a couple of knives now that present this same problem. Their flat grinds don't allow the vise to be used normally. Gwelsby is right on about needing to add or subtract the lean angle from the sharpening angle. I know others use a patch of chamois, but I use a patch of coarse paper towel to improve the grip on the blade. My Spyderco Delica in ZDP-189 has the same tilt problem with a total of 3.5 degrees included between the flats. I clamp the blade flat against the left jaw and push the moveable jaw out until it is parallel to the right face of the blade. I then use a 1.75 degree offset, depending on the actual angle I find at the blade flats.

Unfortunately, if you want to match the existing bevels and there are no flats to clamp on, you'll need to check the blade's position for tilt in the clamp. And/or resort to the Sharpie method to confirm the angle.

BTW Gwelsby, have you checked to be sure that the blade is not rocking from side to side as you sharpen it? I have to admit having this bite me in the butt. Having been burned once, now when I clamp a blade I check to see that it is clamped securely by trying to rock the blade in both axes.
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Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17118

  • LeoBarr
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Was your tool steel vice a lot to have fabricated Josh? It seems to be a great solution to avoid bending a vice I guess you could even have it tapped with bigger threads to allow more torque to the clamp bolts .
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Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17119

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Thanks for that tcmeyer. I have been fortunate enough to have been asked to sharpen a truly FFG chef's knife. It is a block of steel 1.75mm thick with the edge ground out of it. I replaced the chamois with kitchen paper as you suggested and bingo! 0.0 degrees on either side! I've not tried replacing the chamois on the other knives yet but it would seem that the problem arises when trying to clamp a knife which tapers from the bottom to the top of the vice. Mind you, see my photos in reply to Josh in my next post.
Thanks again,
Gerald.
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Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17120

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Josh,
well, if you're using tool steel then the problem is not your vice's getting bent! A couple of photos with less magnification.






There may be minor issues there BUT. The left jaw of the vice is fixed and vertical so WHENEVER a tapered blade is clamped and the left side of the blade is flush against the jaw it will ALWAYS tilt to the left, at the included taper angle of the blade. This does not, of course, explain how I got the left side of the blade leaning to the left, as it should be vertical. Perhaps it may be explained by the use of chamois.
So, the solution SHOULD be: For all blades, make sure the left side is vertical. For FFG blades, just use the angle cube to set the angles. For tapered blades find the included taper angle by lying it flat on the granite and using the angle cube, then do the maths. If you want asymmetric bevels, do some more maths! Oh, and probably use kitchen paper instead of chamois.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Re:Re: Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17124

  • razoredgeknives
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tcmeyer wrote:
Excellent observations, Josh.

But back to the issue of the knife leaning to one side. I have a couple of knives now that present this same problem. Their flat grinds don't allow the vise to be used normally. Gwelsby is right on about needing to add or subtract the lean angle from the sharpening angle. I know others use a patch of chamois, but I use a patch of coarse paper towel to improve the grip on the blade. My Spyderco Delica in ZDP-189 has the same tilt problem with a total of 3.5 degrees included between the flats. I clamp the blade flat against the left jaw and push the moveable jaw out until it is parallel to the right face of the blade. I then use a 1.75 degree offset, depending on the actual angle I find at the blade flats.

Unfortunately, if you want to match the existing bevels and there are no flats to clamp on, you'll need to check the blade's position for tilt in the clamp. And/or resort to the Sharpie method to confirm the angle.

BTW Gwelsby, have you checked to be sure that the blade is not rocking from side to side as you sharpen it? I have to admit having this bite me in the butt. Having been burned once, now when I clamp a blade I check to see that it is clamped securely by trying to rock the blade in both axes.

I totally understand what you are saying TC but you definitely can still use it normally. I just did this para 2 on my wicked edge after regrinding it :-) no issues.





Check out my video on clamping... It has always worked great for me...


LeoBarr wrote:
Was your tool steel vice a lot to have fabricated Josh? It seems to be a great solution to avoid bending a vice I guess you could even have it tapped with bigger threads to allow more torque to the clamp bolts .

Around $130...but you have to find someone willing to do it.

gwelsby wrote:
Josh,
well, if you're using tool steel then the problem is not your vice's getting bent! A couple of photos with less magnification.






There may be minor issues there BUT. The left jaw of the vice is fixed and vertical so WHENEVER a tapered blade is clamped and the left side of the blade is flush against the jaw it will ALWAYS tilt to the left, at the included taper angle of the blade. This does not, of course, explain how I got the left side of the blade leaning to the left, as it should be vertical. Perhaps it may be explained by the use of chamois.
So, the solution SHOULD be: For all blades, make sure the left side is vertical. For FFG blades, just use the angle cube to set the angles. For tapered blades find the included taper angle by lying it flat on the granite and using the angle cube, then do the maths. If you want asymmetric bevels, do some more maths! Oh, and probably use kitchen paper instead of chamois.
Regards,
Gerald.

My vise isn't bent Gerald :-) I was showing you what it should look like. My suspicion is that your knife was rocking back and forth as stated above, while you were sharpening maybe? Anyway, glad you got it fixed!

Josh
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Re:Re: Re:Re: Problem with low angle adapter 4 months 1 week ago #17127

  • gwelsby
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Josh,
I should have been clearer. What I meant was that if you were getting the same symptoms as I was (tilting blade) then it was NOT because your vice was bent so there must be another explanation.
Regards,
Gerald.
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