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TOPIC: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr

Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9525

  • MatthieuMethot
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I have had the 50/80s for a little while now and couldn't be happier. I don't think it takes that much time to get the scratches out. With the WE 100 passes only takes a minute and I find after only 50 passes on each 100 then 200 I can't tell I used the 50/80 stones.:)
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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9526

  • PhilipPasteur
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MatthieuMethot wrote:
I have had the 50/80s for a little while now and couldn't be happier. I don't think it takes that much time to get the scratches out. With the WE 100 passes only takes a minute and I find after only 50 passes on each 100 then 200 I can't tell I used the 50/80 stones.:)

Matthieu,
Thanks for the report. I will preface this with.. if you are happy, that is all that counts.
Still, I would like to know how you make the decision that you can't even tell ??

Do you use any magnification to "not tell"?
What level of refinement do you try to attain with your edges... your bevel? Meaning what is the finest grit that you use?

The whole idea of letting people know of your results is framing the answer so that others know what you mean.
There are lots of conversations going on about getting the ultimate edge refinement and a mirror bevel. In general sharpening discussions, these questions migh be irrevelent, In the context of the WEPS, they become critical.

From my experience, even the 100 grit scratches will take a long time to remove. In fact, after careful attempts at removal, they will reveal themselves when one is trying to do everything through multiple grits to remove all visible evidence of scratches.

Now, if one is sharpening for a great edge and never goes past the 1K grit diamonds and some stropping,nothing I asked about matters. That is a very worthy goal!! But, I would ask that you define that for us a bit...

Just trying to get to your frame of reference... otherwise the statement "I can't tell" is real hard to intrepret.

At any given time, there are many times the number of visitors here as hard core members, they also need to know.

THX
Phil
Phil

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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9527

  • PhilipPasteur
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KenBuzbee wrote:
Well, persistence paid off. I did eventually get this baby down to 26° inc.

It was way harder than I'd expected. It's my first S35VN blade but it seemed much more wear resistant than I'd expected S35VN to be. The only stones that were really a problem were the 100s. I wondering if they have worn more than the others.... Hmmm...

And I know just the knife for them........

Ken

Hey Ken,
A couple of things to ask...
Just curious, why did you want to go to 13 degrees per side on S35VN.. just wondering. If the answer is...because I can. That is good with me.

Second. I have a Native in S35VN. I took it to 17 degrees per side. I love the way it sharpened and polished. The 100 grit plates that I have...very well worn, did OK... though took a bit longer than S30V, not much though. Of course I was not going nearly as acute as you did. Back then I had no ceramic stones for the WEPS, I just used the Diamonds to 1K and Choseras through 2K and stropped with 1 and 0.5 micron on leather. Damn thing looks pretty fine and cuts well.

I rotate my EDC knives, and I am not that fond of the action on the Native... so it is not used as much as some others. I think it has been 6 months sice I sharpened it... and it has maybe 15 days of EDC on it.. Medium at worst use. It still shave arm hair... and cuts phone book paper any way I want it too.. easily. I know because I yanked it out and tried it a few minutes ago
:)

Still curious... why 13 degrees per side... That is tough for S90V or ZDP 189...



Phil
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Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by PhilipPasteur.
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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9532

  • MatthieuMethot
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Do you use any magnification to "not tell"?
What level of refinement do you try to attain with your edges... your bevel? Meaning what is the finest grit that you use?

The whole idea of letting people know of your results is framing the answer so that others know what you mean.
There are lots of conversations going on about getting the ultimate edge refinement and a mirror bevel. In general sharpening discussions, these questions migh be irrevelent, In the context of the WEPS, they become critical. I'm sorry for the lack of details. I am new to forums and probably don't have the best writing skills. I read this forum just about every day for tips and would feel a little guilty if I didn't try to contribute something.:huh: I raise a burr with my 50/80 stones then proceed through all the diamond stones 50 to 100 passes per stone the last few passes on each grit with light pressure.The super fine ceramics are next then the micro ceramics. Then I change my angle 2 degrees lower in this case form 17 to 15 then start stropping with the 5/3.5 on leather light strokes then test with my dogs hair (short hair terrier) then back down to 17 degrees for my balsa strops with 1./0.5 diamond spray then back up to 15 degrees for a final strop with o.25/0.125 Cubic boron nitride. I use alcohol spray on all my strops and I have to say maybe a little to much my leather seems to be stiffening up which might not be so bad as far as rounding the edge with the soft leather is a concern for me.I check my edges with a 60x lighted lop like I saw in one of Clays posts. I get the mirror finish and cut dog hair but it's not perfect I'm still learning. The few small scratches i see when I am done I think are contaminates from lapping my ceramics and my leather strops not my 50/80 stones.
Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by MatthieuMethot. Reason: spelling
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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9533

  • KenBuzbee
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PhilipPasteur wrote:
.
Just curious, why did you want to go to 13 degrees per side on S35VN.. just wondering. If the answer is...because I can. That is good with me.

That's pretty much it, Phil. It's my first S35VN and I'm curious. There's a lot of talk out there that you can take "x" steel to "y°" and/or "z" grit/finish but those discussions may or may not reflect what you like or what you use your knife for. And I agree with your "point", I would never recommend 26° to anyone looking for advice on this steel, in general.

I don't usually classify my cutting as "hard use". Maybe this angle and finish will do fine. If it's horrible, I'll probably try putting a "micro" bevel on it and go again.

It's all just experimentation, and anecdotal at that. I'm not cutting 1000 pieces of rope to see what pressure the final cut needs.:cheer:

As to the Native itself. I know what you mean. I wander around in what I like about any given knife. There are things I like about other knives much more than the Native (locks, clips, blade shape) but the place the Native shines, for me, is the grip. It's almost as good as the Manix 2 but easier to carry. It took me a long time to convince myself to get one. So far, overall, I'm pretty happy with it.

I guess we'll see

Ken
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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9534

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Sounds good... let us know how it works out.
I did go and grab my Manix 2 and put it in my pockest after reading your post
;)
Phil

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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9536

  • KenBuzbee
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PhilipPasteur wrote:
Sounds good... let us know how it works out.

I will. To date this knife hasn't done more than open mail (and pretzel boxes :) ) It seemed sharp right out of the box (though at a VERY coarse grit) But that edge seemed to lose it's bite very quickly. Not really sure why. I'm hoping just getting rid of the steel exposed to factory grinding will help. And now it's much more refined, through the ceramics.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
I did go and grab my Manix 2 and put it in my pockest after reading your post
;)

Happy to help :) Like I said, my M2 is my most comfortable knife to use. I've got 4 of them the CF S90V, the green XHP, the blue S30V and the grey M4. Of the four the only one I've actually used very much at all is the M4. I just love that steel. Takes an amazing edge. Almost as good as my SB Calys but it keeps that edge far longer than they do (and they aren't slouches :) ) I may put a good edge on the S90V and take it out this summer. It's the smoothest of the four, by far.

Which Manix 2 do you have, Phil?

Ken
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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9538

  • PhilipPasteur
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The FFG CTS-BD30P black G10.
Also the XL same config in S30V
I like that one and carry it a bunch when I am not at work... that or one of the Militaries.
I got a Blue PM2 in M390 which is growing to be a favorite too. The GB in M4 is up there too
:)

I just got back into Spyderco knives maybe 2 years ago, after having gotten away from them for 10 years or so.
I only have about 20 of them..but the collection is growing. I have several of the mules too. I like playing with the different steels in an identical congiguration/geometry..
Phil

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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9539

  • KenBuzbee
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PhilipPasteur wrote:
Also the XL same config in S30V

Nice. Did you see Knifeworks is doing an S90V XL?
PhilipPasteur wrote:
I got a Blue PM2 in M390 which is growing to be a favorite too.

I wanted to try the M390 but I have 4 PMs and I never carry any of them. How did you finish the M390? (grit & angle)
PhilipPasteur wrote:
The GB in M4 is up there too

Yep, I have all Spyderco's M4s GB & Air, M2 and Mule. A steel I really enjoy working with.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
I just got back into Spyderco knives maybe 2 years ago, after having gotten away from them for 10 years or so. I only have about 20 of them..but the collection is growing.

Sounds like a nice collection you have going.

The next one on my radar is the S110V Native 5. That was a big reason I got the S35VN model. To work out any thoughts I had about it before it ships.

Ken
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Re: The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr 1 year 5 months ago #9545

  • PhilipPasteur
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Ken,
The M390 PM2... damn I wrote it in my log.., kind of.
I wrote , top depth, length "B" 17 degrees.I can tell you that I wanted to see what the M390 would do as far as sharpness and appearance.. It takes a nice mirror edge.. is real pretty. I used the Diamonds through 1000.. "Back" to the 600 choseras.. up throught all of them (WEPS chosera paddles) . then used the 12K SuperStone.. strops from 6/3 micron up to Kangaroo with 0.1 and 0.50..

I have not resharpened it, date in the book is October 2, 2012..

Still sharp... though will not tree top hair anymore.. Still very reflective...
All likely not required.. another OCD occurence for me..

I need to wait a bit on knife purchases. The new FNAR...and trying to get it setup is draining my hobby funds for the foreseeable future... as much as that hurts my feelings...

Want to pick up one of these Native 5s in S110 and hold it for me?

:silly:

Phil

BTW, I think I put some pics up somewhere here of the MT 07 Mule... I did handles with Black Ebony, gray liners and stainless polished pins..one of my favorites..if for nothing else how pretty it looks.. BUT, I can't find them..
:(
Phil

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Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by PhilipPasteur.
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