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TOPIC: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones?

Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9471

  • PhilipPasteur
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I would suggest the 800/1K choseras first. If you are going for scratch free... you will work your butt off to get there with the 2K. The 1K chosera is considered the work horse of the line. It is good for relatively fast scratch removal and goes a long way towards the reflectivity that you want. You will get thigs shiny going from 1K diamonds to 2K Chosera stones... but you will have scratches... The 800/1K will go a long ways towards getting rid of the bulk of them.

Have you Read Tom Blodget's series on the Choseras?

First, check out the WIKI.. lots of good stuff there:
wickededgeusa.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&Itemid=102

Second take a look at Tom's writeup:
jendeindustries.wordpress.com/2012/02/25...oscopic-progression/

Good info on the whole CHosera lineup!!

Don't worry the rest fo the stones will be around for awhile... go ahead and eat next week.
:lol:

I think it took me around 8 months to rationalize my way through getting the whole set.
Phil

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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9472

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I agree completely with Phil. My fist set of Choseras would be the 800/1k. These are the perfect step after the diamonds. And with stopping you can get good results. I have the full set but often stop at 3k.
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9474

  • cbwx34
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I'll defer to the guys that are using the Choseras on the WE, but you really need to go back to an 800g Chosera after the 1K diamond stone?

Maybe it's not as efficient as using the larger stone freehand?

Even looking at the microscope pics, I'd think you could go 1K Chosera after the 1K diamond, at a minimum.

What if you could get a 1K/2K or 1K/3K combo made... would you consider that, or still stick with 800 first? (If so, which combo?)

You've got me curious.

Edit: Thought adding Tom's "Grit Comparison Chart" might be a good reference for this topic...

Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by cbwx34. Reason: Added Chart
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9478

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Curtis,
We have talked here before about how grit size only tells a ,sometimes small, part of the picture of how any given stone works. When I really want the nicest edge I can get, I go back to the 400 Choseras after the 1K diamonds. The scratch pattern from the Choseras is quite different. Also the scratches seem to not be as deep as the diamonds... and you get the polishing factor throughout the line. The coarser stones allow me to quickly get rid of the diamond scratches and prep for the next Chosera grit.

In theory one could go from the 200 grit diamonds to the 400 grit Choseras easily. The problem is that the don't cut as fast as the diamonds, so you spend more time preping for the next level.

I mentioned that I think the 1K Chosera should be considered the work horse of the line. At that grit it cuts very well but still gets a very pretty edge. Many people go no further.

The 2K is a capable stone, but it does not cut nearly as fast as the 1K. This means you will sped a bunch more time getting rid of the 1K diamond scratches with it. I would say that a 1K/2K set on a paddle would be great, but if you are buying off of the shelf ... for a first set, the 800/1K is the way to go. They will allow one to pretty quickly get rid of the diamond scratches and make the edge quite pretty.

Here are a couple of quotes from Tom's writeup on the Choseras that I linked above. What he said reflects well my experience.
On a new knife, or one I am profiling for the first time, I would normally start my Chosera progression after the stock 600 diamond WEPS plate. And according to this grit comparison chart, it is a clear step backwards to go from the 600 WEPS (16 microns) to the Chosera 400 (30 microns). But as we saw in the WEPS stock progression of the 1K WEPS diamonds to the WEPS 1200 ceramic, the depth of the scratches on the diamonds can be pretty deep, and while the 400 Chosera stones may be coarser, they will not scratch as deeply – so your deepest diamond scratches begin to be exposed and worked out at much lower levels. The 400 (and 600) Choseras are also excellent for doing maintenance and routine repairs without using the diamonds. While I know not many people will be convinced to go back to the 400 or 600 Choseras, this step back actually excels the sharpening process as it moves forward.
There is an uncanny similarity to the 800 Chosera and the WEPS 600 Diamond finish at the edge of the edge. However, the polishing effect of the Chosera cleans up the face of the bevel, making it shine more. They are both very clean and ready for cutting at a basic sharpness level.
The 1K Chosera is a wonderful stone for a working edge. It is often referred to as the “incredible hulk” since it bleeds green You can see how smooth the bevel is, and how clean the edge of the edge is thanks to the effects of the paste.

And he says this about the 2K, but remember he has come up through 4 levels of the Choseras AND through the WEPS diamonds to 600:

The 2K Chosera may look a little rougher than the 1K Chosera, but the edge of the edge actually comes to more of a point than the 1K, and roughly equivalent to the WEPS Ceramic 1600 (although I think the 2K Chosera looks a little better). Again, the paste has enhanced the performance of the stone, and there is actually a very nice mirror on on the bevel at this point, although the actual scratches are not even enough at the microscopic level.

A lot of guys swear by their 2K Chosera as the best all-around working edge, and the 2K sweeping picture shows why.

Finally this, for the folks looking for that ultimate reflective mirror. Tom talks about what he calls the critical leap:
That brings us to the “critical leap” concept. In any progression, there will be a transition where the peaks and valleys are even enough to reflect the surface cleanly. Medium grits still create scratches that won’t reflect directly whereas polishing stones scratches will. This transition is the “critical leap”. On the Chosera progression, you have a visible mirror at the macro level by the 2K level, but not yet under the scope. The critical leap on the Choseras is therefore between the 5K and 10K levels.

I suggest that anyone interested in the Choseras should take the time to read through his entire article and look at the photos.
jendeindustries.wordpress.com/2012/02/25...oscopic-progression/

So anyway, in light of the above and my experience, if somebody is buying the stones as WEPS has them mounted, the 800/1000 would be the first purchase that I would make if I was starting over. A 1K/2K would be a great option if someone will build them for you.

Phil
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9480

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PhilipPasteur wrote:
Curtis,

So anyway, in light of the above and my experience, if somebody is buying the stones as WEPS has them mounted, the 800/1000 would be the first purchase that I would make if I was starting over. A 1K/2K would be a great option if someone will build them for you.

Phil

Phil, I've been following this thread and have a fewquestion for you: Where do the Micro fine ceramics come into play or rank with Chosera progression? Ineresting thread you posted, the only ceramics listed were the 1200/1600.

My current progression is 800/1000 diamonds, Micro fine ceramics, 2000 and 2500 grit paper taped onto ceramics, then strops. Produces good pollish, but still see very fine scratches without a loupe.

If I wanted to eliminate the sand paper, where would the choseras most effectively fit in here?

Before or after ceramics?

Have people purchased a custom mix of Chosera grits already?

Thanks for any info,
Sauce
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9482

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Thanks for the reply Phil. I was rereading the thread... and I saw earlier you had already mentioned that a 1K/2K set would be good after the diamonds if you could get them, so I think I misread where you said you need 800/1000.... it's more of "get that if that's what you can get", cause that's what's offered by WE. :) But the additional info sure helps clarify things.

Sauce, I don't know if they can be made up different than what's offered... just me thinking out loud.
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9483

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cbwx34 wrote:
Sauce, I don't know if they can be made up different than what's offered... just me thinking out loud.

Sure, by third parties. Steven Pinson or Ken Schwartz could make you up a set with whatever you want. 800/1000 400/1000 Whatever.

All my Chosera and Superstones are from Steven and he does great work. I'm sure Ken's are too.

My Choseras are 400/600 & 800/1000 and my Superstone are 2k/8k & 10k/12k I rarely go above 2k for a regular working knife but I've taken a couple up to 12k and they are gorgeous.

Ken
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9484

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Sauce wrote:
If I wanted to eliminate the sand paper, where would the choseras most effectively fit in here?

Before or after ceramics?

Personally, after the 800/1000 diamonds I'll go back to the 400 Choseras if I'm going that route. If I'm using the ceramics, I stop after the .6μ. I suppose the 2k Chosera or SS would be a good follow on but I've not done it.

Ken
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9486

  • EamonMcGowan
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Well you guys are making me rethink what I'm doing and I'm grateful! My original route was to go with the new arms and 2k/3k choseras? Now I'm going with Phil and if I have this right? A set of
800/1000 choseras followed up with a set of 2k/3k choseras and that I really do not need the upgraded arms? A new set with the new washers would be fine? Sorry to veer a little of thread?
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Re: Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones? 1 year 4 months ago #9487

  • BobNash
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Great thread :woohoo: - Eamon suggested I jump on and take a look.

Great information from everyone - I find jumping from the 1000k diamonds to the 2k Chosera to work great for me - the caveat, I realize, after reading this is that my 400 thru 1000 diamonds have done several thousand sharpenings. I had realized that they perform different than what most people experience since I usually have a shine starting already when I'm done with them (and I remember early on being jealous of how Clay's knives were shining after 1000 diamonds), but hadn't really thought about how it affected my transition to the Choseras :blush: - obvious now but funny how I think about that in discussing strops and ceramics but hadn't connected it for the choseras

I digress though - I agree with Curtis that you can get to the mirror with the ceramics and strops (and that bragging rights don't come cheap in $ or time :dry: ) It does take substantially longer - and the ceramics do make the difference. Without the ceramics I don't know that it is possible through just stropping alone (at least not if you do all the other work with diamonds, which is the point here anyway isn't it :whistle:) and adding the microfines to the grit progressing helps immensely.

And I agree you get to a polish faster with the chosera or shapton stones (well really anything that doesn't work as aggressively as the diamonds do). Phil and Ken's statements about backing up in grits make great sense to me given the aggressiveness of the diamonds - guess I'm gonna need to break out some new diamonds and try it out.
EamonMcGowan wrote:
that I really do not need the upgraded arms? A new set with the new washers would be fine? Sorry to veer a little of thread?

Using any stone that wears over time is a case where I definitely suggest having and using the ball joint arms - and when using stones that vary significantly in thickness. Making the angle adjustments when changing stones is much easier with those arms than with the basic kit arms. Not that you can't do it with the basic kit arms, a lot of us have for a while now, but it is so much easier being able to drive the ball joint in and out a little to match the angle.

And - shameless self promotion warning!!! :evil: I build custom handle set of atomas, choseras, shaptons, strops etc.... as well. And we should add Tom at Jende to that list also
Some of the edges I've sharpened on the WE
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