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TOPIC: Polished edge

Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8873

  • Sauce
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Ok, I know this has prior threads on it, just throwing this one out there. I'm 8 sharpenings in with the WE now, and just wondering what results could be obtained at this point compared to what I'm actually getting with my setup (PPII)? What I'm producing right now is a very sharp edge with alot of scratches still. At least 4 of those were reprofiles. Are the stones fully worn in yet? Using diamonds through 1000, then course and fine ceramics, then 1m and .5m strops.

Thanks for any info,

Sauce
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8874

  • ApexGS
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It'll take a while to wear in your stones. I've probably done upward of 50 sharpenings by now and while the stones have worn in nicely, I'm not to the point where only the 1000# stone is a suitable final finish to me for EDC type use. Clay had some pictures under the microscope showing the results of a new set of stones with very worn in ones from his normal work kit, it's a neat comparison.

Since you're just starting out, keep an eye on the blade whenever you change grits and make extra sure you're taking out the previous grit's scratches before moving on. I've had a couple where I was in a rush and didn't take that time, then ended up with blemished portions of the blade later down the road that just wouldn't polish out! This is really where having a jeweler's loupe or something similar pays off, because under magnification it's usually pretty easy to spot. The best polishes I've done thus far were utilizing sandpaper strips to bridge the gap between 1000# diamond stones and the 5um paste strop, which is all I have available at the moment (Pro Pack 1).
Your friendly neighborhood gunsmith!
- Tom
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8881

  • Geocyclist
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The only thing I would add to Tom's post is use light pressure. Then try even lighter. I use moderate pressure during the reprofile stage (probably too much), but after that I try to focus on light pressure. When I think it's time to go to the next stone I do 10 more strokes per side even lighter.

I agree (depending on the steel) it would be hard to get a wicked edge with just 1000# diamonds. I have stopped here with some cheap multi tool blades, that count as EDC, but aren't great blades. The 1000 diamond does leave a toothy edge which you may or may not want.
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8887

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Geocyclist wrote:
The only thing I would add to Tom's post is use light pressure. Then try even lighter. I use moderate pressure during the reprofile stage (probably too much), but after that I try to focus on light pressure. When I think it's time to go to the next stone I do 10 more strokes per side even lighter.

I agree (depending on the steel) it would be hard to get a wicked edge with just 1000# diamonds. I have stopped here with some cheap multi tool blades, that count as EDC, but aren't great blades. The 1000 diamond does leave a toothy edge which you may or may not want.

Going from 1000 diamond, to course/fine ceramics, then strops. What are the capabilities of that combination? How much of a polished edge can one expect to see with those particular tools? What would one suggest to increase the polish, sharpness? Minus the water stones. Not interested if at all possible.

Thanks again,
Sauce
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8890

  • mark76
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With the progression you describe I usually get a pretty mirror edge.

It’s hard to judge from a distance what is going for you on exactly. It could indeed be that your stones are not fully worn in yet. However, if you’ve done eight knives already they should at least be somewhat worn in (depending on the steel and the amount of strokes you do).

My best guess is that at some point with one or more stones you have not completely erased the scratches form the previous grit stones. As Tom said, a loupe is a good tool to judge that. (And they’re pretty cheap. Chefknivestogo sells a good 45x loupe for about $14.)

The first thing I’d do is to make absolutely sure that you have raised a burr on both sides of the blade with your initial stones. If you haven’t done that, that’s probably the reason. The sharpie trick helps well in this, too.

Then it’s a matter of wiping out scratches. Again, if you’re not sure, you could use the sharpie trick here, too. If your stones are not fully worn in yet, it just takes a little longer, but you can get there. If you first use moderate pressure and then light pressure (as Geo recommended) you should get there. Maybe it just takes a little more strokes. Also, I usually do more srtokes with the higher grit stones to make sure I wept out the scratches from the previous stone.

It’s probably overkill, but if nothing works, you could try to raise a burr and apply the Sharpie trick with the higher grit stones as well.

A final tip I could give you is to use quite a bit of pressure with the strops. Not everyone on the forum does it that way, but it works well for me.

Success! Eventually you get there. And though there is a bit of a learning curve, I’ve found it’s not too steep.

Let us know how you fare. And if you can provide us more information, we might be able to give more focussed advise.
Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by mark76.
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8892

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mark76 wrote:
With the progression you describe I usually get a pretty mirror edge.

It’s hard to judge from a distance what is going for you on exactly. It could indeed be that your stones are not fully worn in yet. However, if you’ve done eight knives already they should at least be somewhat worn in (depending on the steel and the amount of strokes you do).

My best guess is that at some point with one or more stones you have not completely erased the scratches form the previous grit stones. As Tom said, a loupe is a good tool to judge that. (And they’re pretty cheap. Chefknivestogo sells a good 45x loupe for about $14.)

The first thing I’d do is to make absolutely sure that you have raised a burr on both sides of the blade with your initial stones. If you haven’t done that, that’s probably the reason. The sharpie trick helps well in this, too.

Then it’s a matter of wiping out scratches. Again, if you’re not sure, you could use the sharpie trick here, too. If your stones are not fully worn in yet, it just takes a little longer, but you can get there. If you first use moderate pressure and then light pressure (as Geo recommended) you should get there. Maybe it just takes a little more strokes. Also, I usually do more srtokes with the higher grit stones to make sure I wept out the scratches from the previous stone.

It’s probably overkill, but if nothing works, you could try to raise a burr and apply the Sharpie trick with the higher grit stones as well.

A final tip I could give you is to use quite a bit of pressure with the strops. Not everyone on the forum does it that way, but it works well for me.

Success! Eventually you get there. And though there is a bit of a learning curve, I’ve found it’s not too steep.

Let us know how you fare. And if you can provide us more information, we might be able to give more focussed advise.

I'm using the sharpie and definitely raising a burr along the entire edge with the 100 grit stones. I think you hit the nail on the head stating that I'm probably not erasing scratches from previous grits. Not used a loupe yet, will invest in one.

The fact that you said you can obtain a pretty mirrored edge with those particular stones/strops is what I wanted to hear, now I can just work on my technique. Wanted to take that out of the equation.

You guys provide good info directly and indirectly(studying other posts)!

Thanks again,
Sauce
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8893

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Sauce wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head stating that I'm probably not erasing scratches from previous grits. Not used a loupe yet, will invest in one.

Just to add to that. I was once in the same situation as you are. I then did 200 strokes per side with the subsequent stones. That was an incredible amount of overkill (as I know now), but at least I was sure I'd wiped out the scratches from the previous stones.

And you'll probably not get a great mirror edge after the ceramics (for me it's still a bit hazy), but the Wicked Edge pastes are really great at that. As I've said before, not everyone agrees to this, but for me using moderate pressure with the strops was the difference between a hazy mirror and a great mirror.
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8894

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You can also try adding in scratches in a different direction, for example if you're swiping heel to tip, add some tip to heel. This can help determine when the scratches are being removed.
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8905

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Sauce wrote:
I'm using the sharpie and definitely raising a burr along the entire edge with the 100 grit stones. I think you hit the nail on the head stating that I'm probably not erasing scratches from previous grits. Not used a loupe yet, will invest in one.
Sauce

Try not to raise a burr at 100 grit, rather raise a burr, preferably at 1000 grit or 800 grit. The less time you spend on the lower grits, the less damage you'll do. Don't get me wrong if there are scratches any of the techniques shared will work.

Most common rookie mistakes are thinking they need to use their coarsest stones, and that they need to raise a burr on course grits.

Happy sharpening,
Nick
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Re: Polished edge 1 year 5 months ago #8910

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NicholasAngeja1 wrote:
Sauce wrote:
I'm using the sharpie and definitely raising a burr along the entire edge with the 100 grit stones. I think you hit the nail on the head stating that I'm probably not erasing scratches from previous grits. Not used a loupe yet, will invest in one.
Sauce

Try not to raise a burr at 100 grit, rather raise a burr, preferably at 1000 grit or 800 grit. The less time you spend on the lower grits, the less damage you'll do. Don't get me wrong if there are scratches any of the techniques shared will work.

Most common rookie mistakes are thinking they need to use their coarsest stones, and that they need to raise a burr on course grits.

Happy sharpening,
Nick

Nick, I just read a thread where you stated the following in ALL CAPITALS:
" IF I WAS TEACHING SOMEONE TO SHARPEN, I STILL STAND BY THE FACT THEY SHOULD DEVELOP A BURR AT EVERY GRIT TILL THEY LEARN THE SKILL, EXPERIENCE, OR "ZEN;" LOSS OF METAL IS A SMALL COST TO LEARN HOW TO SHARPEN AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON WHEN SHARPENING"

Kind of contradicting what you stated in this particular thread. So which is it?

Thanks,
Sauce
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