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TOPIC: Why sharpen to the factory angle?

Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16105

  • EamonMcGowan
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KenBuzbee wrote:
EamonMcGowan wrote:
The one exception is my Houge. I went to low on that and found they did their homework and were right.

I bet you could have done it with a micro bevel.

I have yet to find a modern steel that won't work at 24° inclusive. It's not the longest lasting angle but it cuts way better than 40°. I'll make that trade off any day.

Some of my best, though I took to 18° inclesive then put a 26° micro bevel on. Serious slicers, those. ;) They include a Bradley Air in CPM-M4 and a Roselli Astrid in UHC.

Ken

I don't know why or can I explain it, but for whatever reason I have not really worked with micro bevels? I have done a few and thought ehh and moved on. I guess to be fair I should really give them a chance and do some more again. If I had to guess it is the old "if it works don't fix it?"
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16106

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Or... It could be "if it works, make it work better" ;)

Ken
玉鋼
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16107

  • leomitch
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I know what you mean Eamon as I am pretty much the same, but my intellectual curiosity and the old bushcraft guy inside of me won't let me rest for long. Awhile back I was satisfied with a simple bevel on my blades and I was also backing away from knives and sold a good part of my collection, but the knife bug is not so easily squelched and here I am back at it and trying new things. Microbevels sound like they might add to the strength and keenness of a blade's edge and though I have tried a few in the past, I am going to experiment further...the other Leo's comments have tickled my curiosity. :woohoo:

Leo
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Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
Last Edit: 6 months 4 weeks ago by leomitch.
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16112

  • wickededge
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Great topic guys, great info. I take a similar approach - reprofile everything of my own based on steel and usage plans. For customers, I ask what they'd prefer. Sometimes at tradeshows I just sharpen to the factory bevel if I have a lot of knives piling up.
--Clay Allison
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16115

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leomitch wrote:
I know what you mean Eamon as I am pretty much the same, but my intellectual curiosity and the old bushcraft guy inside of me won't let me rest for long. Awhile back I was satisfied with a simple bevel on my blades and I was also backing away from knives and sold a good part of my collection, but the knife bug is not so easily squelched and here I am back at it and trying new things. Microbevels sound like they might add to the strength and keenness of a blade's edge and though I have tried a few in the past, I am going to experiment further...the other Leo's comments have tickled my curiosity. :woohoo:

Leo

Yeah, I've always tried to keep a attitude that is still willing to learn. I always hated old guys that were set in their ways. Now I have to be careful I'm not that guy. I'm going to play more with micro bevels just cause. If I know me in two months I will be ranting about them like it was my idea. Lol :S :cheer:
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16118

  • GibCurry
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There is no one comment to quote in this thread..... it's all good.....

I came to Wicked Edge as a barely competent home sharpener with aspirations of keener edges.

With the WE, by learning to match factory edges I learned a lot about how to inspect a knife's blade and understand the geometry of the situation.

Now I'm somewhat stuck serving two masters......

1) I wouldn't mind someday setting up a table at fairs, markets & shows. That means being able to place a knife quickly, repeatedly in a similar position and knocking out some sharp knives quickly.

2) And, I also want to be able to polish the molecules at the edge of the edge of the micro micro bevel.

In some ways they are two cross-augmenting processes -- each builds skills and understanding that benefits the other.

Now, I've progressed a bit. I haven't charged anyone a fee nor accepted any money as yet but it is out there that I sharpen knives and a I've gotten a few from outside family & friends.

I'm better at asking the right questions to find out the person's needs and knowledge.

Most people I know have fallen in one of two categories. The first neither know nor care the factory angle. I can whip them out an edge they can be truly scared of, sharper than they've known.

Then, there are those people who do know and really care. They can be home chef's with expensive knives. They can be professionals: chefs, outdoorsmen, etc. Then, there are (to borrow a joke from another thread) those of us with OCD! (Borderline aichmomaniacs!! :dry: )

I'm doing pretty good with the first group and can easily, I believe, satisfy their knife needs. They just want it sharp.

I'm scared spitless to speak to most anyone from the second group. If someone handed me their $5,000 Bob Loveless drop point to sharpen, I would likely just fall over in a faint. And, if they asked me my opinion about the blade steel, I would have to reach under the table to put on my dunce cap....

There's a knife show in April in Oregon. (It looks like a great show. Anyone coming/going? www.oregonknifeclub.org/ ) I've looked into the table and signup costs. But, I'm not going to do it this year.

I just simply would be out of my league. Maybe next year.

I might try to attend but only as a spectator. I would be asking questions and absorbing info....

There are reasons to both change and/or keep factory angles..... and in about an hour, I'm going to micro micro bevel my jerky slicing knife. WooHoo! :woohoo:
~~~~

For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

"My goal is to be a good, practical knife sharpener. My dream is to polish molecules."
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16119

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Well written Gib! The English teacher in me gives you an A+ for composition and grammar! From what we see, you are a wise man and a learner about to set out on an adventure that will test your skills and your confidence. Take the step mate! You can do it!
I don't think the guy with the 5K Loveless blade will do anything but sing your praises when he sees and tries his new edge. Besides you still have a whole month to further hone your skills.
Best of luck in your adventure.

Leo
Never go anywhere without your knife!
Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16132

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I think the factory angle thing perhaps although important on a few knives is perhaps not so important to ordinary folk.
For instance would someone without a WE or an EP be able to tell if a Shun was sharpened as a Global at 15Ëš rather than 16Ëš.
I think it is possible to ut too much attention to these angles .
Part of my self education before buying an Honyaki (which I bought to further my knife knowledge )knife was to find out as much as possible about them the questions I posed chiefly was whether the blade should have a convex bevel or a straight bevel I could not find any reference eventually someone kindly get back to me partly scolding me thinking I was an unlicensed sushi chef but he did proffer an answer which was revealing in itself the blade should be suitable thinned and then once this has been done it is pretty academic whether it be a straight or a convex bevel since the bevel should be virtually invisible ; since a blade of this quality is likely to be sharpened on japanese bench stones all bevels have an element of convex in them.
Now as to confidence in sharpening more expensive blades if someone really knows their blades they will probable be able to sharpen them or know whom to take them to .
Tuffy had a Katana to sharpen the other week which he did an admirable job on for the owner who probable knows he has a good replica of a Katana and it probable hangs on the wall . The real deal is sharpened by someone who has skills way beyond most of us much of the job is polishing and some of these polishing stones are that small one could probable put 3 of them on a finger tip and their stone collections often run into thousands of dollars the skill having taken considerable time to learn under a master I believe most of these masters have probable a minimum of 20 years experience sharpening swords it is quite fascinating.
Now getting back to your fear of sharpening a knife like the one you refers to a Bob Loveless drop point I would say by now that you are probable qualified to sharpen it if it has a V bevel some quality knives do not like Bark River or Fallkniven but all I would suggest is if it were worth a lot show the customer what you have done on other blades so their is no misunderstanding what they are getting and I would possible cover as mush or the blade in painters tape and the scales therefore avoiding any scratches where they should not be I would also use a sharpie on such a knife to determine the angle unless the bevel had been damaged by someone else or needed considerable work but on such a valuable knife I would not expect that.
So the factory angle is really only possible to check if they have the tools to do so and if they have then they would be able to do it themselves.
Here is a link to one of a couple of You tTube films showing Japanese sword sharpening / polishing.
link would not paste here is the title KATANA TOGISHI - Japanese Traditional Sword Sharpner pa

There are three parts to this video
Last Edit: 6 months 4 weeks ago by LeoBarr.
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16136

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Leomitch, I will now never be the same knowing my grammar is getting graded again. :blink: lol sorta :lol:

Gib, I'm willing to bet you don't give yourself enough credit. Have you ever seen any of the edges some of these pros put out? I believe that just with what you have learned so far? You are miles in front of some of them!! ;)
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Why sharpen to the factory angle? 6 months 4 weeks ago #16138

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IMG_0815_2014-02-18.jpeg

I agree with you Eamon we know often new knife have uneven grinds . I have seen quite a few knives destroyed by so called professionals the steel having gone yellow due to sustained over heating or perhaps the finest I have seen was on a Global look at this. The guy ended up missing the edge and ground half way up the blades and the stone was like a 60 grit you could almost cut yourself on the roughness.
So Gib you I or even someone that has just done their first knife on a WE are at a level way above this I am amazed the owner of these Globals did not butcher him.
Unforunately his wife thought she was doing him a favour by handing them over to this knife destroyer .
Last Edit: 6 months 4 weeks ago by LeoBarr.
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