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TOPIC: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle?

Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11284

I recently purchased a wicked edge sharpener and have been getting very sharp knives with it. My first sharpener was an edge pro and it worked well but repeatability is easier with the wicked edge. I am having one issue. When I remount a knife it doesnt always return to the same position vertically, it is leaning left or right differently than when first mounted. This doesnt really make a difference when using the diamond stones. When I get into the super fine and micro fine the small difference in mounting will cause the stones to either hit at the top or bottom of the bevel and not perfectly flat. I use an angle cube but this doesnt matter because the knife wont be at the exact same angle vertically even if the angle of the stone is the same. I have been using a marker and then making fine adjustments until the ceramic stones are at the right angle.

Put another way, if I sharpen a knife down to the ultra fine ceramics and then remount it to touch it up the stones dont hit the bevel perfectly flat even if I measure the angle with an angle cube because the knife doesnt remount the same.

Is there an easier solution?

I do use the foam tape when I sharpen full flat ground knives but they are still the hardest to remount the same. I am getting a .5-1.5 degree difference between mountings. This isnt a lot but it does make the ceramics not hit a preexisting bevel flat so I have make micro adjustments.
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11286

  • PhilipPasteur
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This is a bit dicey. Something I thought about and asked here about more than a few times.

The best I came up with so far it to use a device with a 90 degree angle between the legs as a reference. I have a few items that I have used, a draftsman's 30-60-90 triangle, a carpenters square... one foot with level, and a framing square. One side on the base, just in front of the vise, move it to where the long leg just touches the blade, make note of where the blade is relative to the device. Move it to the other side, do the same thing. Adjust the blade position in the vise until both sides are the same.
This is not perfect, but the human eye at short distances with an object in focus can discern angles with fractional degree precision. It should be close enough to get decent repeatability.

I would love to hear what other people do. My method, while it is OK, is kind of clunky..
:(
Phil

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I miss you Buddy!
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11289

  • johpe
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This is what I came up with:

www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=c...0710&Itemid=63#10757

It is not 100% (either) but looking at the fishing lines I can make sure it is not tilting too much at least...
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11290

  • PhilipPasteur
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johpe wrote:
This is what I came up with:

www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=c...0710&Itemid=63#10757

It is not 100% (either) but looking at the fishing lines I can make sure it is not tilting too much at least...

This will only work if the base is level... as in bubble level sort of level. If it is off , especially side to side it could be misleading.
Phil

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Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11293

How are you guys adjusting the angle. Are you just twisting the knife until you get it as centered as possible then tightening it in place? This is where I have the repeatability issue. I am not too worried if the knife isnt perfectly vertical as long as it is withing a degree or so. I am having a problem getting the knife back to the same vertical position each time it is mounted.
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11296

  • Geocyclist
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I offer this idea for discussion. I have not tried it. I have not sharpened my FFG knives yet. I measured a Sypderco Endura 4 FFG, but I did not try sharpening it. I welcome feedback on this idea. Someday I will get around to sharpening my FFG knives, but for now I don't EDC them so they are low priority.

1. Zero'ed angle cube on granite counter top.
2. Placed blade on granite, it measured 5.00 degrees exactly (which helps make the math easy)
3. Chuck knife in vice so that left side is flat against vice (i.e. parallel to vice) and pack the right side with foam tape to force the left side to stay parallel to vice.
4. Subtract 2.5 degrees (i.e. half of 5) from the left side arm
5. Add 2.5 to the right arm.

One draw back is you can't sharpen super acute angles (such as 15 degrees per side) as your left side would have to be set at 12.5 which wouldn't work for most knives. Or at least at some point the left side would be too acute for the WEPS.
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by Geocyclist.
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11299

  • Geocyclist
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Idea #2 - I also have not tried this. But welcome feedback.

Assume you sharpen a FFG knife at 20 degrees per side and it is perfectly symmetrical and your left/right arms both measure 20 degrees.

Mount knife again in vice. Use a fine stone like the ceramics and a marker. Adjust left and right to get the marker to rub off evenly on both sides. If the knife was mounted exactly 1 degree left, then left arm would be set to 19 and right to 21. And the marker would be rubbed off evenly 100% on both sides.

So can you just mount it and not care about being even in the vice, just fine adjust left and right in tandem?
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11318

  • johpe
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PhilipPasteur wrote:
This will only work if the base is level... as in bubble level sort of level. If it is off , especially side to side it could be misleading.

Absolutely, I'm only using it as a help, the best one I could figure out. Besides most of my floors and tables are straight, I still haven't had any dinner plate slide of the table... ;-)

And what I did first was to verify all the way from floor to WEPS with both the angle cube and a bubble level.
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11320

  • PhilipPasteur
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It seems that you have taken this into account. It is a caveat for anyone les using the method as a reference.


Using the square that I mentioned is also dependent upon the base and the vise being perpendicular.

What we are doing is making a reference that doesn't exist on the device. We just have to be careful that they are relatively stable and precise and verifiable... if we want true repeatability.

Btw, this house is 40 years old... I don't think there is any wall or floor in the place that is level or plumb...
Plates don't slide off of my table either, but the bubble level and square show the true picture.

You should have seen the fun I had hanging new cabinets that are square...and making them look good..
Phil

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I miss you Buddy!
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Re: Remounting knives at the same vertical angle? 1 year 4 months ago #11322

I remounted and touched up about 5 knives. I found that as long as the blade is long enough to get the angle cube against I can get the knives to mount to within .5-.75 of a degree. The way I am using the sharpener it doesnt seem to really matter because when I start using the Micro fine or Super fine ceramics I am going to have to make micro adjustments to get the stones to hit the bevel flat regardless of how perfect I re-seat the knife.

On knives I sharpen for someone else I am just going to match the existing bevel most of the time. If you match the existing bevel it doesnt really matter if the knife is mounted perfectly vertical because you will be adjusting the arms until they match whatever the preexisting bevel is.

For me the only time I really need to make the knife is perfectly vertical is the first time I sharpen a knife that I know I will be touching up frequently. The first time I sharpen it I will set the bevel and than just match this for any subsequent touch ups.
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