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TOPIC: Neat accessories

Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1860

  • wickededge
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ThomasAscher wrote:
Question about the CATRA Laser Goniometer. It gives specs of measuring knives up to 1.7". I have chef's knives with 2" wide blades. Is there any way of using the goniometer to measure such blades, i.e. some sort of work-a-round?

Most likely your chef's knives won't get to their full width right away, so you can get enough of blade into the device to get a good reading. I use the laser goniometer occasionally, especially as a tool to examine the quality of the edge before sharpening, but usually just use the marker technique to find the angle. Combining an angle cube with the marker technique is a very fast and effective way to determine the bevel angles.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1862

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ThomasAscher wrote:
Thanks for response. I just ordered an Angle Cube, but don't see how I can use on just the final edge as actually sharpened. Can the Angle Cube sit on such a narrow edge? If it can, that would be great as that is what I wish to measure!

You can set the stone on the edge of the knife with the angle cube on the back side of the stone as in the image here:
--Clay Allison
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1863

  • drmatt357
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My 2 cents on the cube. Just so you know, the cube measures the angle "in space" not relative angle. What this means is that it's not really measuring the angle of the arm on the WE. If you put your sharpenter on the counter and that counter is not perpendicular to gravity, say 2 degrees off, your cube will not give a true reading of the desired angle, it will be that 2 degrees off that the counter is unlevel. On the other hand, relative angle is the degree of the WE arm RELATIVE to the hopefully vertical knife. So if you square up the blade in the chuck, lay the arm on the blade with the desired paddle and measure your angle, say 20 degrees, now tilt one side of the granite base of the WE and see the cube change... See what I mean? This is such wonderful stuff!!! The only way I deal with it is to hopefully have a level surface but even if it's not, just make sure every time you sharpen, you put your sharpener in the same place on the that counter or work bench or I guess you could shim the base or the counter to level it.
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Dr. Matt
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1864

  • ThomasAscher
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A couple of quick reactions. I thought that the Angle Cube has a zero set button so that you can place it against what you are using as vertical (or horizontal) and set it to 0, then against the stone being used on the WE to get a relative angle?

Second thought, it occurs to me that you could use the WE as a make shift laser goniometer. Place your knife in the holder, as you would to sharpen a knife, then suspend a cheap, laser pointer above the knife edge facing down, then see and mark where the "bubble" laser images hit on each side of the base. Once marked, take a straight edge with the Angle Cube and determine the angle. It doesn't matter how high above the knife edge you suspend the laser, as (since it is collimated, going straight down) it will be deflected the same number of degrees to each side, based on where it hits the edge and the edge angle, independent of how high above the edge your laser pointer is. Clear?

I'm going to Home Depot or Ace today and see if I can find a stand to suspend the laser pointer above the edge, so I can try, take a photo and clarify what I have in mind. But it may be a simple, doable way of creating a home-made goniometer that gets past the 1.7" blade width limitation of the one from CATRA.
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1875

  • dgriff
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drmatt357 wrote:
My 2 cents on the cube. Just so you know, the cube measures the angle "in space" not relative angle.
Dr., haven't you wondered what that 3rd button was for...? :)

ThomasAscher wrote:
A couple of quick reactions. I thought that the Angle Cube has a zero set button so that you can place it against what you are using as vertical (or horizontal) and set it to 0, then against the stone being used on the WE to get a relative angle?
This is correct.
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1876

  • leomitch
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Hee, hee! Ah Griff, you are a devil! LOL! That's what I was thinking too.

Leo
Never go anywhere without your knife!
Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1900

  • zig
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dgriff wrote:
drmatt357 wrote:
My 2 cents on the cube. Just so you know, the cube measures the angle "in space" not relative angle.
Dr., haven't you wondered what that 3rd button was for...? :)

ThomasAscher wrote:
A couple of quick reactions. I thought that the Angle Cube has a zero set button so that you can place it against what you are using as vertical (or horizontal) and set it to 0, then against the stone being used on the WE to get a relative angle?
This is correct.

Isn't this the theory?

Put it on the slab.
Press the first button.
Then press the 3rd button to zero out, enven if your table/slab is 20 degreed off to zero out.

I'm I missing something?
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1904

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zig wrote:
dgriff wrote:
drmatt357 wrote:
My 2 cents on the cube. Just so you know, the cube measures the angle "in space" not relative angle.
Dr., haven't you wondered what that 3rd button was for...? :)

ThomasAscher wrote:
A couple of quick reactions. I thought that the Angle Cube has a zero set button so that you can place it against what you are using as vertical (or horizontal) and set it to 0, then against the stone being used on the WE to get a relative angle?
This is correct.

Isn't this the theory?

Put it on the slab.
Press the first button.
Then press the 3rd button to zero out, enven if your table/slab is 20 degreed off to zero out.

I'm I missing something?
I don't think so.
For those that may be new to the Angle Cube, the Cube is a gravity-driven instrument (a level with digital display), and will show the angle with respect to Z, which is the local gravity vector. As Matt put it, "free space", but tied to Z.
If the WEPS base says 0.00 when looking left/right and fore/aft, then it is level in X and Y. We assume the jaws, when the WEPS is mounted correctly, are parallel with Z and perpendicular to X and Y.
All angle measurements made on the paddles will be true when leaned against the jaws, and any blade properly clamped.

If the base is not level, the angle measurements will be offset by the amount of unlevelness (technical term...:)) because the jaws are no longer parallel to Z.
The "Zero' button allows you to set a new reference for subsequent measurements by subtracting the 'Z offset', and the angles measured on the paddles will now be 'true' with respect to 'Z offset'.
Fortunately, the Cube does the math for us and reads 0.00.

You know, the WEPS angle setpoints work in a similar way. They are tied to the WEPS base, and even if the base isn't level, it's still the same angle when read on the bar. The trick would be to get the blade centered and edge parellel to the jaws.

Sorry for the diatribe, but as a Gov't employee, I'm required to find something to do when there's nothing to do...
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1905

  • ThomasAscher
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While we're on the subject, I thought I'd clarify the need for the Angle Cube given that the WE sharpener already has a scale for angle adjustments. The scale is only approximate and needs to be compensated for depending on the width of the knife being sharpened and the thickness of stones. For example, with my chef's knives which are about 2" wide, the angles need compensation for the fact that the edge is higher above the clamp than on a narrower knife. Also, Chosera stones are thicker than the WE diamond stones. That changes the angle as well. So, My Shun chef's knives have a factory edge of 16 degrees. Using the WE stones, I have to set the WE angle settings to 18 degrees to get 15.6 degrees as measured by the Angle Cube. When I switch to the Chosera stones, I have to move the WE settings to 20 degrees, again, to get 15.60 degrees.
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Re: Neat accessories 2 years 1 month ago #1907

  • zig
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Another thought.
If you clamp a FFG knife and it is not exactly center and just don't want to fiddle with it or can't get it, say a degree off on one side, but ....
You adjust the paddles ignoring the markings and use the cube to get say 20 degree per side.

My physics isn't up to speed ... is the knife evenly sharp?
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