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TOPIC: Further on Convex Edges

Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1531

  • leomitch
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The neat thing about convexing an edge is that there is no need to be really precise. For example, let's say I start at 16 degrees...I fully develop that edge, after I get my requisite burrs on both sides, using the full complements of paddles. Then I widen the degree settings to 18 degrees and using the 400 grit paddles do several swipes and the 600 to 1000 grits several swipes each...my goal is simply to build a shoulder and then another shoulder at 20 degrees so in effect it looks like an inverted 3 step pyramid with the fully sharpened apex at the bottom. Then I use the full complement of strops to smooth off the shoulders which results in the smooth bullet shape of the classic convex edge.
Hmmm! Clear as mud boys? I can see it in my head but I don't know if you can from my description. But one thing is clear I think, there is no need for anymore burrs than the initial burr.
The convex edge is ancient because when people first started sharpening things they couldn't be really precise...the men just sat there sharpening their knives or spear heads by friction against a rock, while the women did all the real work, and so by this method the classic convex edge was the natural result. The WEPS way is the fast modern way of achieving the same thing. BTW, the women still are doing most of the work around the house eh! LOL! Whatever works guys! If you are happy with the end result and it cuts your eyes just looking at it, it's all good. Depends on whether you are a molecule polisher like some sharpeners or a pragmatist like me. :silly:

Leo
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Leo James Mitchell
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1532

  • zig
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Understand I think Leo.

But the way I'm seeing it is you developing your edge at 16 first, but that primary at 20 then never gets a bur, know what I mean?

Ex: In Clay's vid, he burs to 17 and goes through the stones.
Then he jumps to the 20 to bur, with only I think the 1000s or ceramics. That gives the edge it new cutting edge at 20. I picture just a double bevel, one at 17 then the cutter at 20. That 20 I play with lightly to 1600, and even give it a few strops to define the edge.
Then I step down like Clay about 10 light strokes, depending on the metal, at 19 and 18, with neither going to bur.
I feel and mico-view to be sure.

Now I got a semi bullet.

Then I go 17 and round it out with strops and polish.
Occasionally I may go back to the 20 for a bit more polish hoping to keep the 20 edge scary sharp.

I feel this way the original height of the 17 is not changed much, see what I'm saying? Its more like a rifle bullet.

What I'm wondering is if I go from 17 bur, 18 light bur, 19 light bur, 20 light bur refined ... then back to 17 stropped to roll the edges together, I'm guessing I'm gonna get a shorter height, stronger shoulders, a more accurate roll to 20, but maybe not as sharp, or maybe even sharper if I stay on the 20 lightly with say a 1600 ceramic (Highest I have right now until I can get the Shaptons)

Am I making sense?
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1533

  • leomitch
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What is the old saying, 'there is more than one way to skin a cat!'. but since I love cats I will loosely (very loosely!) quote my Buddha who says, 'there are many paths to enlightenment, so choose your own path and tread it boldly!'

What you are saying is also correct! Sometimes words get in the way of results. As I said, I am a pragmatist and when I first wrote a review of the WEPS in a forum populated by sharpening mavens, my pragmatism got me into conflicts with them...the suggestion was, what do I mean entering this hallowed ground. In the end it was OK and we became friends but they never did understand that it is enough for me that my knife cuts the things I want it to cut and that is all good. A mirror edge is nice but is not the absolute for me. A convex edge no matter how you get it is good and cuts things like lightning, doesn't matter to me how I got it beyond the simple steps I use. I probably don't have to go back to the 400 grit for each of the secondary steps but I just do and it seems to work alright. I know I am not much of a perfectionist but that's me now...when I was thirty, watch out! I was a bear for perfection! I don't get all exercised about it now! Old farts eh! ROTFLMAO!!!

Leo :lol:
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Leo James Mitchell
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1534

  • glenewertz
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Since the more obtuse angle is the final cutting edge, why not start with that angle and convex from that point?
Example; 20 deg cutting edge taken to burr, then just a few strokes each of say 18,16,14 being careful NOT to take them to burr.
Less metal removed, and much faster.
Why remove the edge you just put on?
The only trade off I see would be maybe slightly less precise. (appearance, not performance)
If you start with the lower angle 14 to burr then progress to burr up to 20 you are removing more of the metal and work you just performed.

Correct me if I'm missing something or read it wrong.

Glen
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1535

  • leomitch
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Another path that makes even more sense Glen. Good process my friend!

Cheers
Leo
Never go anywhere without your knife!
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Leo James Mitchell
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1537

  • zig
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glenewertz wrote:
Since the more obtuse angle is the final cutting edge, why not start with that angle and convex from that point?
Example; 20 deg cutting edge taken to burr, then just a few strokes each of say 18,16,14 being careful NOT to take them to burr.
Less metal removed, and much faster.
Why remove the edge you just put on?
The only trade off I see would be maybe slightly less precise. (appearance, not performance)
If you start with the lower angle 14 to burr then progress to burr up to 20 you are removing more of the metal and work you just performed.

Correct me if I'm missing something or read it wrong.

Glen

The only thing I see might be the lesser of evils is that with Clay's method - 17 to bur and through stones, then 20 to bur, then a bit of work on 19 and 18, - you then have 2 definitive set angles, your 17 and 20, with 19 and 18 worked just to round it out.

I gues either way you get a similar edge.
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1538

  • jendeindustries
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I still don't understand your pragmatism, Leo, but I'm very glad we're still friends! ;)

Zig - I think either approach will work - from the lower angle up , or higher angle down.

The one thing that may interfere with the finished edge is some "brushing" of the edge from the leather paddles, which may round the edge of the edge, making it lose some of its total sharpness. So in this light, I would recommend finishing at the highest angle with several, very light alternating strokes.
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1539

  • leomitch
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To the end my molecule polishing friend, to the end! :lol:

Leo
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Gibbs rule number 9

Leo James Mitchell
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1542

  • Henry1
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After creating the convex edge how do you maintain the edge? Touching up all angles or just the edge? Or anything in between? Hope this isn't too dumb a question!
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Re: Further on Convex Edges 2 years 2 months ago #1543

  • leomitch
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Not a dumb question at all! All I use is a strop with Green and Black compound, one on either side and then softly strop away. I have found that soft brushing, especially soft like a pleasant breeze brushing your cheek done with each face of the strop and that is sufficient. My edges respond very well to this.
You could use the WEPS strops, but I have never asked Clay what to set them at angle-wise knowing the angles used. In my case of 16,18 and 20, I suspect 16 degrees would be correct but I am not engineer or mathematician enough to know for sure.

Leo
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Leo James Mitchell
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