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TOPIC: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 6 months ago #2548

  • wickededge
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Here is a post from another topic that shows the different grits really well. I started with a very smooth bevel and then worked backwards and forwards, hoping we could see a clear difference in grits: Stock stone/strop progression. I also alternated stroke directions so we could really see the difference.
--Clay Allison
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 6 months ago #2549

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PhilipPasteur wrote:
I think Clay said at one point that his Dino at 400X only had resolution that was in excess of 1.5 microns per pixel. Mark, your at 250X has to have even less resolution. Between that and the problems that we all have getting the lighting just right, maybe you just can't see what is really happening. Of course, you should be able to see 14 micron scratches wso we can probably deduce from the fact that you do not that the scratches are smaller than 14 microns, maybe smaller that the 2.5 or so micron resolution that your shstem can probaly detect, but there is direct evidence on the paddles that abrasion is happening. That metal is coming from somewhere... Perhaps we just need an SEM at 2000X or better to really see what is happening.

Phil

I just re-checked the specs on both my scopes. The images from the Dino-Lite AD-413ZT are at 230x with a micron/pixel ratio of 1.76um/pixel. The images from the AM-413T5 are at 510x with a micron/pixel ratio of .78um/pixel, so in theory, we should be able to see the 1 micron scratches easily.
--Clay Allison
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by wickededge.
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 6 months ago #2550

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I changed things up a little with my scope and I think this following image will help:

halfmicron-510x-1280f.jpg.jpg


The above image was taken with the Dino-Lite AM-413T5 at 510x and we should be seeing a micron:pixel ratio of .78um:1px. I completed 800 strokes with a set of stops loaded with WE .5um paste and HA .5um spray. I added the spray to the strops to reduce the stiction (and therefore burnishing) in hopes of getting more visible abrasion. Looking at the scale and the finest of scratches, it's pretty easy to imagine getting 4-8 of those scratches inside the scale. I'll do another 200 strokes with the .5um strops and then move back to the 1um strops.

I realized after posting this that the scale is too small to see on the image as is. I uploaded the image to my blog where we can see it at its full size: 1/2 Micron - 800 Strokes - 510x
--Clay Allison
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by wickededge.
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 6 months ago #2551

  • PhilipPasteur
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From "1 micron diamond and top grain leather strops (Wicked Edge paste)" that photo it does show scratches at the 1 micron level and with the alternating strokes even at the .5 micron level. I think those were taken with the Dino at 230X (??).

I guess that my thought was simply that is were are removing metal as evidenced by the particles on the strop, there must be abrasion going on, not simply burnishing.

Burnishing is another thing that I want to learn more about. The definition is the smearing of a material when enough force is applied to exceed the material's yeild strength. I wonder how we do that with hardened steel and force being applied by relatively soft leather. I could see that possibly enough force may be applied on a very small scale by the tips of the abrasives to deform or smear the steel, but then we should see no burnishing from plain leather. The razor guys swear that stopping on clean leather smooths out (burnishes) an edge. In fact I have seen evidence or burnishing from a clean leather belt used on a belt grinder. The edge definitely gets polished.

Lots to think about!

Phil
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 6 months ago #2552

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PhilipPasteur wrote:
I guess that my thought was simply that is were are removing metal as evidenced by the particles on the strop, there must be abrasion going on, not simply burnishing.

I agree completely that if we're seeing metal on the strop, then we are getting abrasion.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
Burnishing is another thing that I want to learn more about. The definition is the smearing of a material when enough force is applied to exceed the material's yeild strength. I wonder how we do that with hardened steel and force being applied by relatively soft leather. I could see that possibly enough force may be applied on a very small scale by the tips of the abrasives to deform or smear the steel, but then we should see no burnishing from plain leather. The razor guys swear that stopping on clean leather smooths out (burnishes) an edge. In fact I have seen evidence or burnishing from a clean leather belt used on a belt grinder. The edge definitely gets polished.

I agree with you here too - burnishing by definition seems to require a lot of force, much more than we'd expect from the leather alone. This is a topic I'm exploring with Sandia Natl Labs right now, trying to learn how it is that we accomplish the burnishing effect. I'm hoping we'll be able to see at the molecular level what's happening. My theory is that the 'stiction' applies enough local force at the minute scale to achieve the burnishing.
--Clay Allison
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 6 months ago #2554

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I tinkered some more with lighting and angle in the scope so we could see the scratches a little better. I also did another 200 strokes with the .5mu strops. The new image is posted on my blog so we can see it full size: 1/2 Micron - 1000 Strokes - 510x
--Clay Allison
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