Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Stropping Discussions

TOPIC: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2644

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
PhilipPasteur wrote:
Interesting...
First, thanks Clay for all of this! it is real nice to be able to see what is happening with these progressions.
You're welcome, these are very fun to do.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
The 10K Chosera edge is interesting because it seems to be non-uniform or maybe a bit uneven.Not sure how to describe it. Curious, so far I have liked the edge that this stone leaves. Though I must say that I have almost always gone to the leather strops at 1 micron diamond and .5 micron CBN after the 10K.
I need to repeat the 10k stone because I think there might have been surface contamination or some other issue; most likely the stones picked up some grit from being stored with the rest of my Choseras.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
It it my imagination or is the 1 micron diamond bevel showing fewer scratches than the 0.5 micron bevel.
At this magnification it seems hard to tell which "edge of the edge" is better, but I am leaning towards the 1 micron edge.
I agree that the .5um seems coarser than the 1um. I had almost identical results previously as well and it may be an issue with my strops. I had scraped off the surface of my .5um strops resulting in an almost suede surface which might be responsible. I'll have to replace the leather on that set.
PhilipPasteur wrote:
BTW, just saw the last photos. It looks like the horse butt is some abrasive stuff. Interesting that there are all kinds of stories out there on the razor forums about how superior it is to other stropping media!
The horse butt is clearly very abrasive. It's interesting that the plain, top grain horse butt was one of the only ones to pass the hanging hair test - obviously the edge it produces excels at cutting hair.
--Clay Allison
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by wickededge.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2645

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
mark76 wrote:
That 1 micron diamond paste after the 10K Choseras makes a smooth edge…
Agreed!
mark76 wrote:
And then it is weird that the .5 micron paste seems to make scratches again.
I think there is an issue with my .5um strops - I had previously scraped the surface to clean them off and gave it a suede or split grain texture. I'll have to replace the leather on that set.
mark76 wrote:
The results with split horse leather are strange. The .25 micron stuff on split horse leather seems to make even wider scratches than the .5 micron stuff. But then the .125 stuff seems to smoothen the edge again… Could it be the lighting? Or contamination?
Switching from cow leather to horse, top to split and back is creating a lot of confusion - I'll need to redo this series with all cow/top leather, all horse/split and all horse/top leather. Additionally, Ken is sending me a bunch of nano-cloth strops so we can compare pure abrasive :)
mark76 wrote:
What strikes me is that the .125 scratches seem much more apparent after the top horse leather than after the split horse leather. But after the cow leather they are hardly visible. Lighting? Or are we running into the limitations of the microscope?
I've done a similar series before but with alternating stroke directions which were clearly visible, so I think that we're not having issues with the equipment. The lighting for each shot is identical; I'm using a template for placing the blade. My guess is that it's amount of abrasive present on the substrate.
mark76 wrote:
Your post does seem to show that the smoothest edge is not necessarily the sharpest (also not for push cutting or the HHT). Or do I interpret things wrongly?
I agree about the HHT. The push cutting through paper was so similar between grits that it is hard to tell when one is better. The 1600# ceramic and the 5k Chosera created some fraying, the rest were virtually identical.
mark76 wrote:
I’d be interested to see what that plain top horse butt leather does to a completely clean edge, compared to plain top cow leather. Some straight razor honers like top horse leather because it apparently has silicates in it already by itself. And your first HHT pass was after the top horse leather.
This would be a very fun test to conduct. I'll work on getting the edge as clean as possible and the re-testing the plain cow and horse leathers.
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2646

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
Okay, I just got my mind blown and now I'll share; Ken sent me some kangaroo leather for strops along with some nano-cloth. Here is a nice progression going from 1um Diamond on Cow Leather (Top) to .25 Diamond on Kangaroo Leather (Top) to .125 CBN on Nano-Cloth:

1umDiamondonCowLeatherTop.jpg

1um Diamond and Cow Leather (Top) - 100 strokes

25umDiamondonKangarooLeatherTop.jpg

.25um Diamond on Kangaroo Leather (Top) - 100 strokes

125umCBNonNano-Cloth.jpg

.125um CBN on Nano-Cloth - 100 strokes

Totally cool!!!
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: razoredgeknives, KenSchwartz

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2647

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
I can clearly see that with the Kangaroo Leather and Nano-Cloth strops, combined with the finer compounds, I've effectively reached the limit of what I can image with my equipment. I've spent the last 1/2 hour trying to tinker with the scope and lighting to see some scratches and just can't. I can move the blade around and see stuff that I didn't polish out, but for scratches created in the last progression, I can't see any at all. I'm really excited, thanks Ken! We'll be adding the Roo strops and nano-cloths soon and I'll be in the market for a higher magnification scope!
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: KenSchwartz

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2648

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
As much as I hate to put scratches on such a perfect edge, I'm going to now clean my 10k Choseras really well and see what kind of scratch pattern I get.
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2649

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
Okay - bit the bullet and re-created the 10k scratch pattern following a second iteration of the .25um Diamond and Kangaroo Leather strops. As always, there is a slight bit of convex shaping that occurs with the leather, so you see the new scratches from the 10k stone come in but not making quite to the very edge because of the last bit of curvature - shows a nice distinction between the media:

25umDiamondonHorsebutt-100strokes-2ndpass.jpg

.25um Diamond on Kangaroo Leather (Top) - 100 strokes

10k-100strokesafter.25umonKangaroo.jpg

10k Chosera - 200 strokes

For reference, the little band of super polished edge is only 31um wide.
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: KenSchwartz

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2651

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
and just for grins...:

10k-100strokesafter.25umonKangaroowithhair.jpg

10k Chosera - 100 strokes with human hair

25umDiamondonKangarooLeatherTopafter10k.jpg

.25um Diamond and Kangaroo Leather (Top) - 100 strokes

After the 10k Choseras, I went back and did a quick 100 strokes with the .25um Diamond and Roo strops to see how quickly I'd get a result - pretty quick!
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: KenSchwartz

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2658

  • holymolar
  • holymolar's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 61
  • Thank you received: 25
  • Karma: 13
WOW!
I want those Kangaroo Leather and Nano-Cloth strops ASAP.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2659

  • wickededge
  • wickededge's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1801
  • Thank you received: 649
  • Karma: 92
holymolar wrote:
WOW!
I want those Kangaroo Leather and Nano-Cloth strops ASAP.

We'll be listing them on the site this week.
--Clay Allison
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 5 months ago #2665

  • mark76
  • mark76's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1260
  • Thank you received: 402
  • Karma: 87
This is totally cool! :woohoo: WOW! Finally the submicron compounds do work.
wickededge wrote:
We'll be listing them on the site this week.

And maybe work some overtime to process orders... :cheer:

It seems like the substrate is much more important than I (we?) thought. That roo and nanocloth must be supersmooth. For that reason I'm still very interested in the top grain horse leather pictures...
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.149 seconds