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TOPIC: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work

Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2595

  • mark76
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Thanks a lot, Tom! Of course stones work like that! I should have made that up myself, but somehow I didn’t. (Which reminds me of a quote of my old professor, who said that the best articles are the ones that seem so simple you wonder why they were written.)

With your explanation of host and guest scratches, I think I can also make a bit more sense of some stropping spray progressions I read about on your blog. (But only a bit :-).) For example, you stropped your Spyderco Military with 0.25 micron spray and then with 0.05 micron spray. It seems the difference between 0.25 and 0.05 (factor 5) is too much to be able to wipe out the 0.25 scratches. Did you try to create 0.05 micron guest scratches on top of 0.25 micron host scratches?

If so, I understand that makes the edge sharper. However, wouldn’t the edge get even sharper if you did try to wipe out some of the 0.25 micron scratches, for example with 0.125 micron spray, then 1 and then 0.05 micron spray? Or do things work differently in the submicron rabbit hole?
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2596

  • wickededge
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The biggest challenge is examining the effects of those finer grits because our imaging doesn't get that fine. If we can get to >1000x we might be able to do a little better. If we're trying to get below .1 microns, then we're going to need access to much better imagining.... I'll post some pics a little later this morning of the edge with a variety of grits.
mark76 wrote:
Thanks a lot, Tom! Of course stones work like that! I should have made that up myself, but somehow I didn’t. (Which reminds me of a quote of my old professor, who said that the best articles are the ones that seem so simple you wonder why they were written.)

With your explanation of host and guest scratches, I think I can also make a bit more sense of some stropping spray progressions I read about on your blog. (But only a bit :-).) For example, you stropped your Spyderco Military with 0.25 micron spray and then with 0.05 micron spray. It seems the difference between 0.25 and 0.05 (factor 5) is too much to be able to wipe out the 0.25 scratches. Did you try to create 0.05 micron guest scratches on top of 0.25 micron host scratches?

If so, I understand that makes the edge sharper. However, wouldn’t the edge get even sharper if you did try to wipe out some of the 0.25 micron scratches, for example with 0.125 micron spray, then 1 and then 0.05 micron spray? Or do things work differently in the submicron rabbit hole?
--Clay Allison
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2597

  • mark76
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wickededge wrote:
The biggest challenge is examining the effects of those finer grits because our imaging doesn't get that fine. If we can get to >1000x we might be able to do a little better. If we're trying to get below .1 microns, then we're going to need access to much better imagining....

Very true. However, if it works (I assume Tom and others do sensible things), it'd be interesting to know how it works at least in theory.
Last Edit: 2 years 4 months ago by mark76.
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2602

  • jendeindustries
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It's true - I really can't determine much of a scratch pattern past 30K or .5 microns on any of the equipment I have.

However, the edge of the edge starts to really become a point, and if you do too much, you begin to see the edge of the edge begin to fray from structurally being too thin.
Tom Blodgett
Jende Industries, LLC

My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2615

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jendeindustries wrote:
It's true - I really can't determine much of a scratch pattern past 30K or .5 microns on any of the equipment I have.
:evil:

OK, then I'll stay in the area of multiple microns :cheer:.

I made a new blog post, on stropping with the 14 micron paste after the 1600 grit stones. With today's knowledge the results won't surprise: it works beautifully. However, two weeks ago, I would be baffled.

And even now I am surprised by how effective the paste is. Only 50 strokes were required to obtain a very smooth edge. The 200 more I did were really not necessary.
Last Edit: 2 years 4 months ago by mark76.
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2616

  • wickededge
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mark76 wrote:
Only 50 strokes were required to obtain a very smooth edge. The 200 more I did were really not necessary.

I guess the next step would to see how many exactly. Maybe going from the 1000# diamonds or the 1600# ceramics and only doing 10 strokes before imagining.
--Clay Allison
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2617

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wickededge wrote:
I guess the next step would to see how many exactly. Maybe going from the 1000# diamonds or the 1600# ceramics and only doing 10 strokes before imagining.

That is a good one. There is a noticeable difference, however, between using the strops after the 1000 grit stones and using them after the 1600 grit stones. They nicely smoothed out the 1000 grit scratches, but these scratches were still well visible. However, when used after the 1600 grit stones, the 1600 grit scratches nearly got wiped out.

I am starting to wonder whether the WE paste loaded strops are perhaps the ideal means to prevent the "overhoning effect" (coarse sratches becoming apparent only when sharpening with fine stones) that Tom has described. I.e. do some stropping after the 1600 grit stones before going to the high grit Choseras or Shaptons.

I know it sounds weird, but this topic has surprised me before... What do you think?
Last Edit: 2 years 4 months ago by mark76.
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2618

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mark76 wrote:
I.e. do some stropping after the 1600 grit stones before going to the high grit Choseras or Shaptons.

That's an interesting thought. I sometimes do something similar when I'm studying grits; I polish and smooth the edge until it's near perfect, then go straight to the grit I want to study so I'm sure that what I'm seeing is exactly the grit in question.
--Clay Allison
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2619

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Okay, for fun, I decided to do a preliminary study of stroke numbers with the strops,using the 14um diamond pastes right after the 1600 ceramic stones. I did 10 strokes per side before taking each picture:

1600# Ceramics
1600grit.jpg


14um - 10 strokes
14um10strokes.jpg


14um 20 strokes
14um20strokes.jpg


more to come...
--Clay Allison
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Re: A theory of how the WE diamond pastes work 2 years 4 months ago #2620

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14um - 30 strokes
14um30strokes.jpg


14um- 40 strokes
14um40strokes.jpg


14um - 50 strokes
14um50strokes.jpg
--Clay Allison
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