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TOPIC: Next purchase ... need ideas

Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17330

  • Bushwhacked
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So I have been a long time lurker and just decided to get on here since I got some extra money for some new goodies :)

I am wanting to give my knives a wonderful mirror edge on them.

right now I have the 800/1000 stones and busted out my homemade strop after that. After seeing pictures and stuff around on the web, I decided I want to try and get that mirror finish people are getting.

So I was thinking ...
Mirco Fine Ceramic Stones
1 and .5 Micron Diamond Strop Pack
Blank Nano-Cloth Strops W/ .125 Cubic Boron Nitride Spray & .050 Micron Polycrystalline Diamond Spray

thoughts on if that would be good enough to get the mirror edge I am looking for?
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Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17331

  • EamonMcGowan
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Hi Bushwacked and welcome to a great forum! :) This as you may have already read in your lurking is a greatly debated issue around here. One mans mirror is anther mans... There seems to be two main camps? One camp says to get a true mirror shine you have to use the water stones. The other side says it can be done with the ceramics.
Everyone has an opinion and in the end you will too! Now in my opinion your method will give a very shinny edge! But really it is more of an edge you would want to shave with. It will be a very fine and almost toothless to the naked eye and touch. "ie - finger nail test"
If you have some extra bucks? but you have not robbed a bank lately? Then I would go with both the micro ceramics and the super fine ceramics. If there was money left over? Then the roo strop would be my choice. But here (strops) I think we are splitting hairs? Really the leather with the 5/3.5um will work nicely! This set up (micro and super fine) is usually enough to calm the average "ocd" sharpener around here?
Now? There are a lot of folks around here that believe to get a true mirror shine you must use the chosera water stones. Once you use them and see for yourself? It is hard to argue? You will be able to see that single gray hair in your eyebrow looking back at you!
But like I mentioned earlier? Have you robbed a bank lately? If you think that this is something you would like? All is not a lost cause there are baby steps in this direction.
The way I went about it was to buy two sets at first. 1) 1K/2K set followed with a 3K/5K set.
If you do a good job of removing scratches all the way through the diamonds? (A loupe really helps here) When you are done with the 1K diamond. Start with the 1K chosera making sure all previous scratches are removed. Then it be comes pretty easy? 2K, 3K, then 5K. Spend some time with the leather 20 to 40 max passes and guaranteed your going to love the shine! Then as time and money allow add the other stones and the will make it easier and brighter.
Now with all that being said? If you have not robbed any banks lately and bucks are tight like the rest of us? Then here is what I would do? I would get the super fine (1200/1600) ceramics and the kangaroo strops. I would work very hard to remove all scratches from previous honing. So when I'm done with the 1K diamonds I have only scratches from the 1K! Then get busy with the 1200 and again make sure....Then 1600 same thing...If you have done your prep work? The Roo strops will leave you with a beautiful shine!!
Now like I said there are many opinions on this forum and nobody is right and nobody is wrong!This is a game of are you happy with what you got? If you are? Lucky you! You just save a ton of dough!!! :woohoo:
If the answer is "I wonder what if?" Well welcome to the next level in the rabbit hole :lol:
Remember the most important thing is to have fun!! And ask lots of questions! Everyone here is willing to help and may save you a buck or two along the path.
I would also recommend that when you are ready call Bob Nash at Oldawan tool. Bob is filled with good old fashioned customer service and will not over sell you!! You will get everything you need and nothing you don't need!! 505-570-2040 www.oldawan.com/
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17334

  • mark76
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Hi Bushwacked,

Welcome to the forum! Eamon already indicated it, there are various opinions on what a mirror edge is. Your proposed setup will definitely give you very sharp edges.

A cheaper route would be the ceramics + 3.5/5 micron strop kit (with leather strops). I sometimes call this the poor man's mirror edge, but it works very well.

And if you want to go the royal way: nothing can beat the Chosera's. Ceramics + 5K/10K Chosera's really work great. And you may want to add some lower grit Chosera's to that, but it's not absolutely necessary.

Whatever you choose, lots of success! You'll get great edges with each of these setups and a bit of technique!
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by mark76.
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Re:Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17335

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Yep I understand everyone has their ways of getting the great finish. Its just like anything else in life... everyone has their own way haha.

Thanks for the thoughts on this I appreciate it!

I do have a few questions based on what was said

1) since it was mentioned to go until you full remove the scratches from the previous grits ... its there a guideline to how many passes on average that can take? I am assuming the lower the grit the longer it will take?

2) are the nano clothes a waste at this time in my setup that is available? Should I be waiting on those until I get better stones that are finer grit?

3) chosera stones are expensive. Do you still have to soak them in water before use? Should I be looking into that path before I spend more money on non chosera stones?

4) is the roo strop more prefered over basic leather? Do you need to add any compounds to it? Ive rad the roo is a little harder than leather because it is thinner making the rounding an edge over issue not as much of an issue anymore. Correct?
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by Bushwhacked.
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Re:Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17336

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Hi Bushwacked, as you noticed, there are many ways to achieve what you want. It is personal, so don't take my answers as the definitive ones.
Bushwhacked wrote:
1) since it was mentioned to go until you full remove the scratches from the previous grits ... its there a guideline to how many passes on average that can take? I am assuming the lower the grit the longer it will take?

No there is not. It is a matter of feel. But when I was in the same position as you, a few years ago, I also had this question. (And nobody wanted to answer it, since it is so personal :-) ). But if I can give you a guideline: try 50 passes per side. That should give you a starting point.
2) are the nano clothes a waste at this time in my setup that is available? Should I be waiting on those until I get better stones that are finer grit?

The nano clothes are great. But they come really into play when you want to finish your edges to the max. So, with very fine stropping stuff, less than 0.5 micron, I'd say. They don't have any abrasive quality by themselves, which is an advantage when you're really down to the very fine stropping compounds.
3) chosera stones are expensive. Do you still have to soak them in water before use? Should I be looking into that path before I spend more money on non chosera stones?

Yup, the Chosera stones are expensive and they require soaking. But if you want absolutely mirror edges, they're the way to go.

4) is the roo strop more prefered over basic leather? Do you need to add any compounds to it? Ive rad the roo is a little harder than leather because it is thinner making the rounding an edge over issue not as much of an issue anymore. Correct?

The roo strops are great in the sense that they (almost) have no abrasive qualities of themselves. So they're really suited for very fine stropping compouds. I you using 3.5/5 paste, I'd go for normal leather strops. But for 1 micron or even smaller stropping stuff, I'd recommend the roo strops.

Hope this gives you a bit more insight, but don't hesitate to ask more questions!
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by mark76.
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Re:Re: Re:Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17339

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mark76 wrote:
Hi Bushwacked, as you noticed, there are many ways to achieve what you want. It is personal, so don't take my answers as the definitive ones.
Bushwhacked wrote:
1) since it was mentioned to go until you full remove the scratches from the previous grits ... its there a guideline to how many passes on average that can take? I am assuming the lower the grit the longer it will take?

No there is not. It is a matter of feel. But when I was in the same position as you, a few years ago, I also had this question. (And nobody wanted to answer it, since it is so personal :-) ). But if I can give you a guideline: try 50 passes per side. That should give you a starting point.
2) are the nano clothes a waste at this time in my setup that is available? Should I be waiting on those until I get better stones that are finer grit?

The nano clothes are great. But they come really into play when you want to finish your edges to the max. So, with very fine stropping stuff, less than 0.5 micron, I'd say. They don't have any abrasive quality by themselves, which is an advantage when you're really down to the very fine stropping compounds.
3) chosera stones are expensive. Do you still have to soak them in water before use? Should I be looking into that path before I spend more money on non chosera stones?

Yup, the Chosera stones are expensive and they require soaking. But if you want absolutely mirror edges, they're the way to go.

4) is the roo strop more prefered over basic leather? Do you need to add any compounds to it? Ive rad the roo is a little harder than leather because it is thinner making the rounding an edge over issue not as much of an issue anymore. Correct?

The roo strops are great in the sense that they (almost) have no abrasive qualities of themselves. So they're really suited for very fine stropping compouds. I you using 3.5/5 paste, I'd go for normal leather strops. But for 1 micron or even smaller stropping stuff, I'd recommend the roo strops.

Hope this gives you a bit more insight, but don't hesitate to ask more questions!

Ok 50 passes each side sounds like a nice starting point ... I would think by now someone would of put out some numbers on average of how many it takes to get rid of "XXXX" grit marks or severely cut down on them.

Ok guess I will hold off on nano cloths for now.

So the 10k chosera will put a mirror finish on it or 10k chosera to a roo strop to finish it? Just curious after 10k how they can be that good. Im mean I've heard stories but just never experienced one before.

It does sound like I should get leather and roo strops and hit the knives with both and have the different compounds on each.
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Re:Re: Re:Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17340

  • Mikedoh
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Ok 50 passes each side sounds like a nice starting point ... I would think by now someone would of put out some numbers on average of how many it takes to get rid of "XXXX" grit marks or severely cut down on them.

Steel varies in hardness etc. stones become less coarse overtime. Pressure applied to stones when sharpening varies. Some familiarity with these things is required, and that is part of the learning curve.

My limited experience with Choseras/water stones is from the Edge Pro system. The Choseras do produce a beautiful mirrored finish, though it is not necessary for a very sharp knife.
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Re:Re: Re:Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17341

  • Geocyclist
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My personal opinion:

Get 600 and 1k Choseras. (to get this combo you have to order from someone that will put those 2 grits on one paddle).
1k will give a nice finish and 600 is coarse enough to pickup from the 1k diamonds. (Then later if you 400/800, it will work well to have 1 set in use and the other set soaking).

I would start with 3.5/5 strops on leather. Unless you are using micro scope these are plenty good for starting out. Once you get practice with stropping on the WEPS and don't cut the strops then you can invest in more strops, roo, nano, with finer grits.
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Re:Re: Re:Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17350

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Mikedoh wrote:
Ok 50 passes each side sounds like a nice starting point ... I would think by now someone would of put out some numbers on average of how many it takes to get rid of "XXXX" grit marks or severely cut down on them.

Steel varies in hardness etc. stones become less coarse overtime. Pressure applied to stones when sharpening varies. Some familiarity with these things is required, and that is part of the learning curve.

My limited experience with Choseras/water stones is from the Edge Pro system. The Choseras do produce a beautiful mirrored finish, though it is not necessary for a very sharp knife.

Ya I know it's a tough one to measure due to all the variables. Was just hoping to get a "this steel takes 50-100 strokes to get rid of XXX grit" and so on.

I know it will just take time and sharpening to get the feel of it to know


I am curious though ... With this system if you took a knife that needs an edge to mirror finish. How long does it take the pros? Curious on time and if I'm doing right if for instance it takes pros 20 mins and then it takes me 60-80 mins. Then I know something is wrong. Any thoughts on thAt one?
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Next purchase ... need ideas 2 months 3 weeks ago #17351

  • tcmeyer
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Just to stir the pot a bit...

I've decided to go the route of glass blocks with film abrasives. The idea being that you don't have a soft substrate to wrap itself over your nice clean edge, polishing it away.

You can buy film down to 0.1 micron diamond. Imagine having a whole range of grits at your disposal. I made a set of 5 pairs allowing me to have up to 10 different grits. Clay tells me that WE is working to provide a version. He also said that they'd offer a selection of films. How soon??
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