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TOPIC: Breaking in the stones...

Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5591

  • RICKLINDSEY
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Trying to get other opinions on this idea.
Read somewhere else that you could break in your diamond stones by doing roughly 15 strokes on each stone by rubbing the faces together just using the stones weight instead of on knives. Such as 100 to 100, 200 to 200 and so on.
I don't have any low dollar knives so this method interests me.
All input appreciated. Thanks in advance
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5592

  • wickededge
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You can definitely do this though I'd recommend less than 15 passes; maybe 4 or 5. I think you'd be even better served by picking up a low end knife to practice on and break your stones in at the same time. That way, your technique and your stones will develop in tandem and you can pass the knife off to someone who will appreciate it once you've gotten it scary sharp.
RICKLINDSEY wrote:
Trying to get other opinions on this idea.
Read somewhere else that you could break in your diamond stones by doing roughly 15 strokes on each stone by rubbing the faces together just using the stones weight instead of on knives. Such as 100 to 100, 200 to 200 and so on.
I don't have any low dollar knives so this method interests me.
All input appreciated. Thanks in advance
--Clay Allison
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5596

  • cbwx34
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Also, remember... there's no reverse... if you decide to do this, and overdo it, there's no going back. Also, rubbing the stones together can cause wear to the plating that holds the diamonds, something that won't occur (as much) if they're broken in on knives.
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5608

  • Scott Sherman
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So if I understand this correctly, on a new stone one can expect some of the grit or diamonds that are embedded into the stone will be higher than others causing deeper scratches as they are pulled across the surface of the metal blade, right?

Is the grit or diamonds embedded into another substance that holds them in place like clay or something or is it just a solid block of grit or diamonds pressed together with some kind of bonding substance like glue or something?

And lastly, does the sharpening ability of the stone diminish incrementally once the stone is worn or broken in? Such that a 100 grit stone after a lot of use becomes the equivalent of 400 or 600 grit stone? Or is the grit embedded evenly throughout the width and thickness of the stone all the way to the place where the stone is attached to the metal holder in which they sit so that it will remain a 100 grit stone and always leave a consistent scratch pattern until there is insufficient stone left?
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5613

  • wickededge
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Here is a nice image comparison of an edge after sharpening with some very well worn 600# diamond plates vs some fairly new 600# diamond plates:

600-Old_2012-10-01-2.jpg

The above image is of the edge after 50 strokes with the well worn plates.

600-New_2012-10-01.jpg

The above image is of the edge after 50 strokes with the newer plates.

The images are taken at 2000x magnification.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5614

  • wickededge
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The stones are actually steel bar stock, plated with nickel and then plated with the diamonds. As the plates are created, diamonds in the solution seek out a bond with the nickel. An initial base layer forms first and then additional diamonds crowd their way onto the metal forming bonds where ever they can. These extra diamonds are above the plane of the base layer and will cut much deeper scratches until they are knocked off. Additionally, while diamonds are extremely hard, the edges will fracture off during sharpening and the surface will become flatter and smoother.
--Clay Allison
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5619

  • ApexGS
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This seems like a fair enough place to ask a question that comes up often enough: what is the general lifetime of a diamond stone? I know we're talking thousands of knives and then some, but is it likely that you'll need to replace stones in a couple years? How about a decade? Just curious :)

Cool info on the actual binding process, I was curious as to how diamond stones were made as well!
Your friendly neighborhood gunsmith!
- Tom
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5620

  • wickededge
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ApexGS wrote:
This seems like a fair enough place to ask a question that comes up often enough: what is the general lifetime of a diamond stone? I know we're talking thousands of knives and then some, but is it likely that you'll need to replace stones in a couple years? How about a decade? Just curious :)

Cool info on the actual binding process, I was curious as to how diamond stones were made as well!

That's a good question but one that's not easy to answer. I tend to get =/-500 knives out of my 100/200 stones and easily 1000+ with my 400/600 stones but I might be a bit different in my usage than most people. I re-profile a lot of knives, especially when I travel to shows, so my coarse stones get a lot of extra wear. I also like my stones well worn, so I might be content with them longer than the average user. Most people shouldn't need to use their coarser stones more than once per knife unless they decide to change the angle later or have some damage to repair and so their stones should last longer (time-wise) than mine. All that said, we sell very few replacement stones so I believe my assumption is correct and that people are getting great life out of them. How's that for a non-answer? :)
--Clay Allison
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5621

  • PhilipPasteur
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If I may, be patient. As Clay has just said, getting the stones broken in on steel will result in them lasting much longer. Rubbing the stones on each other is not good! You will inevitably remove more of the diamonds than you want to...and have no real way to control this. Most have no real way to measure what they are doing! The whole process will depend on how much pressure you apply, the number of strokes, and the individual properties of the specific diamond plates.

Plating and coating the individual plates, while controlled, is never perfect. Do you want to reduce that lifetime from 500 blades to half of that due to impatience? Do you want to remove a bunch of diamonds that don't need to be removed? Do you want to score and scar the substrate uneccessarily?

Even though I am much more impatient than most, in a era of demanding instant gratification, my answer to that question is a resounding *NO*.

As some say YMMV. I say, don't do it. It is not worth it!!

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
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Re: Breaking in the stones... 1 year 10 months ago #5622

  • PhilipPasteur
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I just had an epiphany..
Well maybe a constructive thought.
How about finding a strip of what I have seen described as "mild Steel" at your local home improvement or hardware store and rubbing the stones gently accross that (or vigorously depending on your level of impatience)? Keep the diamond plate flat and square to the hunk of steel!
I have seen this material in one inch wide by about an eight inch thick pieces in various lengths. It is real cheap. Do that for a bit, then sharpen a blade. Repeat as required until you get what you need... !!

That is, if you cannot find some knives to sharpen with the diamond plates and just can't wait for them to break in. Using this method would get around the diamond plate on diamond plate liabilities, but still get you a way to accelerate the break in process.. Remove the excess diamonds, evenly and not excessivly, while leaving the substrate un-scared.

Though at the cost of some manual labor..
:)
Precision is what we look for!


Good, Yes?

Phil
Phil

MAX 2001-2013
Hoping there is that bridge!
I miss you Buddy!
Last Edit: 1 year 10 months ago by PhilipPasteur.
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