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TOPIC: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it.

my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6298

  • Scott Sherman
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As most who have followed my posts know I am new to WEPS but I have made a serious commitment to succeed and enjoy the process of using it. I ordered the PP2 about 8 weeks ago and took delivery about a week or so ago. I have asked a bunch of questions prior to receiving it and subsequent and as a result have continued to add to my arsenal of stones and strops since getting it. My most recent acquisition was the super fine ceramic, which I just got Friday (a couple of days ago).

I was happy with it and also unhappy with it at the same time. What I mean by that is that it definitely does bridge the gap between diamond 1000 grit and ceramic micro fine and changes the grit in a perceptible way to a more fine pattern. That is the good. What I didn't think was great was the feel and texture of it. It sort of felt less refined than the finest diamond at 1000 grit and the very glassy smooth heavy micro fine ceramic. The super fine feels a bit soft and light like it wasn't fully cooked in the kiln or something, at least compared with the other excellent stones I was sent.

So having said all that, I think it really does serve the intended purpose of smoothing the scratches to allow the much finer micro ceramic stone to do it's job of polishing, but I still can't help but wonder if the 5k/10k Chosera stone might not do the job even better or perhaps the Chosera 2000/3000 which is the next step up from the 1000 according to the grit scale.

I can't seem to get a clear answer from anyone and just measuring grits seems to be a bit misleading because the different types of stones seem to get different results at comparable grit levels.

The problem is that I have already purchased the super fine ceramic and the only real way to find out the answer is to buy the Chosera stones. To do it right, I would need to buy both the 2000/3000 and the 5k/10k, but that is a major investment on top of what already is a gigantic expense in buying the PP2 plus all the other additional accessory stones I have bought.

For what it would cost, I could buy a new generator I have had my eye on for example or a really nice new custom knife which I can sharpen to extreme levels with what I already have.

So just to be clear, I am not complaining about the Super Fine Ceramic. It does what it says it is supposed to do, but could it be improved on IF I had bought the Choseras instead. What do you think. Again, I am pursuing this because I know others have expressed a similar interest and at least to me it is still unresolved.
Last Edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Scott Sherman.
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6300

  • Geocyclist
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Scott, Thanks for the feedback. I was researching Chosera's tonight and found this on site that sells different brands of Naniwa stones. This helps explains what was discussed recently about different factors in stone performance other than just grit and that grit standard is not always a simple 1,2,3 process of just follow the descending grit #'s. I.e. different stone perform differently even the tough the grit is higher or lower than other stones.

"Chosera stones are harder than the Naniwa Superstones and so take much longer to develop a hollow in use. These stones also cut faster, especially in the rougher stones -- 3000 grit and larger. The 400-grit Chosera stone, for instance, works faster than the 220-grit Superstone, and is only marginally slower than the Shapton 120-grit. Normally the Chosera stones only need to have their surfaces moistened a bit with water." From www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-chosera.html
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6303

  • Billabong
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Scott Sherman wrote:
What I didn't think was great was the feel and texture of it. It sort of felt less refined than the finest diamond at 1000 grit and the very glassy smooth heavy micro fine ceramic. The super fine feels a bit soft and light like it wasn't fully cooked in the kiln or something, at least compared with the other excellent stones I was sent.

That was my reaction also.

Like there should be a 1200/1600 that was like the micro's in feel, touch and weight.
Like it's a cheap addition or something.
Strange that we both feel that way.

edit - Notice I used quite a few "likes" in there so I don't get slammed. ;)
Last Edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Billabong.
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6307

  • Razoredge
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So it works just fine, but you don't like the "feel" of it? :huh:
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6308

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Billabong wrote:
Scott Sherman wrote:
What I didn't think was great was the feel and texture of it. It sort of felt less refined than the finest diamond at 1000 grit and the very glassy smooth heavy micro fine ceramic. The super fine feels a bit soft and light like it wasn't fully cooked in the kiln or something, at least compared with the other excellent stones I was sent.

That was my reaction also.

Like there should be a 1200/1600 that was like the micro's in feel, touch and weight.
Like it's a cheap addition or something.
Strange that we both feel that way.

edit - Notice I used quite a few "likes" in there so I don't get slammed. ;)

A lot of people have that reaction, especially initially because they are so different. Over time, I think you'll come to enjoy them. I find mine to be an indispensable tool.
--Clay Allison
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6311

  • Scott Sherman
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I agree with Clay. It definitely serves a purpose and does what it is supposed to, but it is different from what you will come to expect if you only have a 1000 diamond and a micro fine. When I think ceramic, just referring to my commonly used ceramics like dishes or sculptures or ceramic parts used for electrical applications for example, I think of very smooth, dense solid or hard surfaces. This stone is not any of that. It is, I am sure out of necessity, brought to a specific finish needed to offer the grit stage between the 1000 and the micro fine and still be durable enough to last through many uses. I would guess that this is a fine line and probably required a certain amount of compromise to find that balance.

I think it is the most cost effective solution to bridging the gap effectively. I think if you don't mind spending a lot more money and dealing with some other issues you can get about the same results with some combination of whetstones and have that nice feel of a dense fine stone if that is what you like and I get that. At some point I may replace the super fine with the Chosera 2000/3000 and or 5k/10k, but for now the SF does the job well enough. I will be interested in it's durability, given the more fragile appearance and texture it has. But Clay and others report that it has performed well for many knives now, so I have a high expectation and level of confidence that it will last.
Last Edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Scott Sherman.
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6323

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wickededge wrote:
A lot of people have that reaction, especially initially because they are so different. Over time, I think you'll come to enjoy them. I find mine to be an indispensable tool.

Clay and anyone else,

1.) For a re-profile of a factory edge what do you prefer (ceramics or chosera's)?
2.) Minor touch up (just a little worse than strops alone can handle) what do you choose.
Major touch ups for me are like a re-profile, just less work and the angle is already set. Use a lot of stones but not the coarsest.
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6324

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Geocyclist wrote:
wickededge wrote:
A lot of people have that reaction, especially initially because they are so different. Over time, I think you'll come to enjoy them. I find mine to be an indispensable tool.

Clay and anyone else,

1.) For a re-profile of a factory edge what do you prefer (ceramics or chosera's)?
2.) Minor touch up (just a little worse than strops alone can handle) what do you choose.
Major touch ups for me are like a re-profile, just less work and the angle is already set. Use a lot of stones but not the coarsest.

I always drop back to the diamonds for a re-profile. For touch-ups where the strops aren't enough, I usually use ceramics.

If it's a knife I've sharpened with waterstones, then I'll use those again to touch it up.
--Clay Allison
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6325

  • 4jlcc
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Scott, that was an excellent review of the Super Fine Ceramics. Clay, thank you for your insight also. I believe my decision is made that I will include the Super Fine Ceramics with the Pro-Pack II when I purchase. Now on to convince the better half why I "need" this!
-Joel
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Re: my opinion of the super fine after 3 days with it. 1 year 8 months ago #6326

  • Scott Sherman
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Happy to help. Perhaps part of the confusion is actually just in the name. These stones are more fine than the 1000 grit but much less than the micro fine. I feel that the use of the word "super" might lead some to think that this is a bit more smooth and "fine" than it really is. I don't have another stone like the Choseras mentioned to compare it to, so I may be off base here. But I think just logically, that the label could be leading some to think it will be a bit different than what they receive. Let me know what you think when you get it.
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