Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Sharpening chef's knife

Re: Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13042

  • LeoBarr
  • LeoBarr's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 688
  • Thank you received: 238
  • Karma: 33
I just sharpened a Japanese pen knife at something like a 70/30 ratio and I think I am beginning to understand how these ratios seem to produce a keener edge . I think we all know that a lower angle will shave more easily than a high angle so splitting the total angle to a ratio other than 50/50 means the best of both worlds provided that it is accepted that the knife will not be good for chopping although I would use a cleaver or an axe for that but it will produce a wonderful slicer as preferred in Japanese cooking.

One interesting thing I picked up on is when sharpening a single sided Deba that often the first couple of inches of the blade by the heal is given a double bevel 50/50 so that if bone needs to be parted the knife is pushed down with the heal of the hand using the more durable double beveled part. The rest of the work of the Deba is done with the other end near the point.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13043

  • Bobg
  • Bobg's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Thank you received: 12
  • Karma: 0
Just wondering if a knife would be better, custom sharpened, for a right hand or left hand user.
Meaning would it be any better if the 70/30 deg were either on the left or right side. Knowing most things are designed for right hand use, and most left hand usage is custom ordered.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13044

  • LeoBarr
  • LeoBarr's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 688
  • Thank you received: 238
  • Karma: 33
If as I think you mean which side to do if 70/30 then the stamped side that is if laid flat handle to the left & the blade to the right edge facing you then this is the side to do 70 and the other side 30 for right handed people and the reverse for left handed people .
Should you do this then say a Kai Shun has a total angle of 32Ëšso 70/30 is 9.6Ëš on the stamped side & 22.4Ëš on the other side I hope that makes it clear.
Here is the real crux of the biscuit slice or chop Japanese knives & bevels are for slicing the steels are also brittle. Softer western steels Henkel's Worstuf etc 50/50 grinds are for chopping and prefer higher angles and are suited to a less disciplined user - high culinary abuse.
So identify how the knife is to be used before using Japanese bevels and angles .
Last Edit: 1 year 1 month ago by LeoBarr. Reason: minor addition
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13048

Leo,

I appreciate your explanation, but would also like further clarification.

You stated: "the stamped side that is if laid flat handle to the left & the blade to the right edge facing you then this is the side to do 70 and the other side 30 for right handed people"

Does this mean that the side of the bevel facing the user (Superior/top view) is the side that gets 70? or is it the side of the bevel that is touching the table (inferior/bottom view)? What angle does the top get, and what angle does the bottom get with the blade to the right and handle on the left?

I've been trying to find the answer to this question for weeks!

Thanks!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13049

  • cbwx34
  • cbwx34's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1260
  • Thank you received: 413
  • Karma: 92
OUCH! My head already hurts. :dry:

Having seen a few of these threads over the years, can I make a suggestion?

Talk about the blade like you're holding it getting ready to cut. So the right side is the right side, left side....

Here's a pic. you can use if it'll help. (My apologies... I no longer remember where I got it).

hb16b3f0.jpg
Last Edit: 1 year 1 month ago by cbwx34. Reason: removed confusing 2nd pic.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: LeoBarr, BladeAndStone

Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13050

  • LeoBarr
  • LeoBarr's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 688
  • Thank you received: 238
  • Karma: 33
h074e3bb.JPG



Okay this knife although one sided is the side you would do the shallower angle say 9.6Ëš the other side you would do the 22.4Ëš although this particular knife probable is not the best to show this ; the knife is for a right hander .
I hope this clarifies a bit plus as it probable goes without saying but the shallower angled side will take more strokes to sharpen so the ratio of sweeps will also be 70/30 since the steep backside bevel will be much smaller so that is the 30 ratio but the degrees are opposite so the 70 ratio will be only 30% of the total degrees ( that been the shallow angle will be a much wider bevel so more metal to remove ; longer to achieve .
May be just to help you not get confused draw cross section on a piece of paper
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BladeAndStone

Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13062

  • GibCurry
  • GibCurry's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Gib
  • Posts: 158
  • Thank you received: 117
  • Karma: 20
I appreciate this discussion.

I've got a nice but not expensive one-sided knife. It's designed for right-handers but when I slice through anything it (being sharp) cuts a circle to the left.

".... draw a cross section on a piece of paper..."

One thing I've learned for certain since I've been on this forum is that:

* sharpening a knife is moving metal around
* knife sharpening is an art and a science

So, I need to apply some critical observation & insightful thinking every time I pick up a new blade to sharpen.

I'm doing some measuring and cross section drawing of a blade that I unwittingly attempted to re-profile because the blade itself is asymmetrical. I'll post more on that fiasco soon.

In the meantime, I need to look at my Japanese knife and figure out how to get it to cut straight. Any theories?

Thanks, Leo, Curtis and all for your practical insights...
~~~~

For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

"My goal is to be a good, practical knife sharpener. My dream is to polish molecules."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Sharpening chef's knife 1 year 1 month ago #13065

  • LeoBarr
  • LeoBarr's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 688
  • Thank you received: 238
  • Karma: 33
h60b0716.png


If you look at the diagram the shinogi curves up at the kissaki so if you slice from the ago through to the end of the kissaki then the handle will push to your left so when slicing stop at the beginning of the kissaki which will also save you lifting the handle to keep the blade in contact with the board .
The Yanagi are meant for draw cutting so from the ago pulling towards yourself.

I must admit I have not experienced this but this must be why if you use the whole blade this is happening .
This is the only reason short of a bent knife that is doing that . If the knife is bent then you need to slowly in small increments bend it back to centre .
Last Edit: 1 year 1 month ago by LeoBarr. Reason: spelling
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.157 seconds