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TOPIC: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade

Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10917

  • JaredHunter
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Well money just came in from my r/c car stuff i was getting rid of. And i have enough for more stones or the new arms.

stones i have
100
200
400
600
800
1000
1200
1600
5/3.5 balsa


i would like the balsa 1 and 0.5 balsa along with the 50/80 as i need to reprofile some chipped blades

but would the arms be a better choice as i pretty much have a pro pack 1 already.

thanks for the replys
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10919

  • cbwx34
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I'd vote stones first... arms later. Sounds like you have a need for the stones, and would benefit more from them at this point.

That's my vote! :)
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10921

  • LukasPop
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I agree with cbwx34. I had similar set as you, only 5/3.5 on leather, not balsa, and got 50/80, microceramics and 1/0.5 on balsa.

I don't used 50/80 much, becouse I reprofiled my knives allready, so I used them only for knives for my friens. I reprofiled dozens of knives with my 100 before getting 50/80, so my 100 are much more broken than my 80, so there is big gap between 80 and 100. 50 and 80 work fast, but you spend a lot of time removing the stratches with 100 thereafter. On the other hand, my 100 works much slower than in the beginning (but leaves much smoother bevels also), so reprofiling with them is tedious.

I like 1/0.5 on balsa, but I don't disquinquish between influence of particle size and different substrate. My 5/3.5 leather strops are quite damaged also.

Microceramics are great IMHO. If I want great edge, I do progression 1000 diamonds -> micro coarse -> micro fine -> 1 balsa -> 0.5 balsa. It leaves quite shinny and hair whittling edges.

I don't have new arms, but I think they are useful with waterstones (becouse of angle microadjustment). They have less play also, but I solved this with consistent and sure grip of the paddles - it comes with practise. I think this is the key - smooth, light pressure, strokes.

So my recommendation is - get 50/80, if you want to repair chipped blades.

If you can't get consistent hair shaving edges now, practise and work on your technique. 1/0.5 strops wouldn't help you. Maybe got cheap hand microscope (5-10$ from dealextreme or ebay) - it helps finding where the problem with the edge is. Once you have good skill, I recommend getting microceramics with 1/0.5 strops together.
Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by LukasPop.
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10922

  • BobNash
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+1
I'd vote stones first... arms later. Sounds like you have a need for the stones, and would benefit more from them at this point.
Some of the edges I've sharpened on the WE
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10923

  • EamonMcGowan
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BobNash wrote:
+1
I'd vote stones first... arms later. Sounds like you have a need for the stones, and would benefit more from them at this point.

Bob sold me everything on your list and a few more items. If he says so? I would listen to him. Better yet call him for some personal direction. :) His number is on the bottom of his thread ;)
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10926

  • Geocyclist
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If you are currently satisfied with the results you are getting with the current arms: i.e. angle settings, feel, etc. then stick with them.
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10927

  • cds43016
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I have basically the same setup as you. However, most of the knives that I sharpen are kitchen knives from friends or churches in the community. Needless to say many of these are no name knives made in China. I’ve handled 2X4 lumber that had a sharper edge than many of these knives. On the other hand, some are very good.

I do have the 50/80 stones but even using them on so many knives that are so dull is tedious. My breakthrough was getting a cheap 1x30 belt sander (about $30 at Harbor Freight on sale with a coupon) and some sanding belts specific to knife sharping (about another $30). This does a good job in a matter of minutes and can even repair broken tips and quickly take care of chips. Most of the time I can get very dull knives to cut phone book paper easily. Pretty close to what you would expect from a good factory edge. Not near as good as a hair whittling WEPS edge but useful enough for its purpose. A belt sander is just another tool to draw on to eliminate some of the heavy lifting.

Sometimes I use the knives as is from the belt sander, or more often then take them to the WEPS to get a great edge very quickly. The hard work has already been done. It gets you at a better starting point. Needless to say on some cheap knives, no matter what you use to sharpen them, there are limits on what can be done. A 2x4 is a 2x4. I found there is very little incremental benefit to further take knives like this to the WEPS.

Needless to say a belt sander works quickly and if not used carefully it’s a good way to ruin a knife. The advantage is speed and some additional flexibility, but with a little practice and the right belts the learning curve is pretty short and the risk small. And the cost is low.

Since I got the belt sander I don’t use the 50/80’s much anymore but I’m still glad to have them available. You can’t have too many tools. I have tried a major reprofile and repair with the 100 grit stones and it can easily become an exercise in frustration. And so can a lot of cheap dull knives. I think I’ve solved my heavy lifting problem which was my first priority. What it comes down to is what’s most important you which sounds like stones.

For me, now I can focus on other aspects of the hobby like getting that perfect mirror edge on my good personal knives. Now the priority is the new arms, Chosera stones and further refining my technique.

Did I really say I solved my heavy lifting problem? It may have only just started!
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10935

  • KenBuzbee
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LukasPop wrote:
are great IMHO. If I want great edge, I do progression 1000 diamonds -> micro coarse -> micro fine -> 1 balsa -> 0.5 balsa. It leaves quite shinny and hair whittling edges.

IMO, the micro ceramics are the first thing I would add after the 800/1000 stones. They are my favorite finishing stones for most EDC knives.

But I hear you on reprofiling.

One HUGE caveat on the 50/80s. BREAK THEM IN ;) on something you don't care about. My initial use left such deep scoring the lines took forever to remove. If you let newer 50/80s get too close to the edge you WILL chip the edge and it takes a long time to remove those chips. After they are worn in that's less of an issue but I still wouldn't try to completely reach the apex with them. Watch closely (with a loupe or whatever) and when the deepest scratchs get near the edge switch to the 100s.

Ken
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Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by KenBuzbee.
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10937

  • EamonMcGowan
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KenBuzbee wrote:
LukasPop wrote:
are great IMHO. If I want great edge, I do progression 1000 diamonds -> micro coarse -> micro fine -> 1 balsa -> 0.5 balsa. It leaves quite shinny and hair whittling edges.

One HUGE caveat on the 50/80s. BREAK THEM IN ;) on something you don't care about. My initial use left such deep scoring the lines took forever to remove. If you let newer 50/80s get too close to the edge you WILL chip the edge and it takes a long time to remove those chips. After they are worn in that's less of an issue but I still wouldn't try to completely reach the apex with them. Watch closely (with a loupe or whatever) and when the deepest scratchs get near the edge switch to the 100s.

Ken

My experience 100% Like Ken was there when it happened to me? And now that is the way I follow up using the 50/80s. I'm still working the 50s on knifes I don't care about.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?
An old Irish toast, May the wind always be at your back, may you always have work and may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead. Cheers!
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Re: Stones vs new arms as a upgrade 1 year 2 months ago #10939

  • jendeindustries
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Limpy,

There's a lot of great advice so far! My question is: Are you planning on sharpening other people's knives, or are you looking to further the abilities of the WEPS on your own knives?

If you plan to sharpen knives for other people, then adding the 50/80 will definitely be an advantage, as mentioned, if you get enough bad knives, a belt sander will make life even easier. Taking things beyond the 5/3.5 micron is also good, but is not necessary for every knife, especially the cheapo knives.

Getting the arms will certainly improve the overall accuracy and ease of sharpening, but again, isn't necessary to get great results.

In the end, it's a personal call, the good news is that you won't make the wrong decision with either! B)
Tom Blodgett
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My Blog: jendeindustries.wordpress.com
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