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TOPIC: Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters

Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 3 weeks ago #18158

  • razoredgeknives
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tcmeyer wrote:

Further info on how I converted my WE stone blocks available on request.

I am waiting on the tutorial similar to this thread! ;)

So tom, what if you just drilled down just enough to seat the bushing but didn't drill the WE paddle all the way through? then you wouldn't have to worry about it slipping off the end of the rod on the shorter arms, right?
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 3 weeks ago #18171

  • GibCurry
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razoredgeknives wrote:
GibCurry wrote:
I've just figured some things out about my little digital microscope and now get a clearer image of what havoc I have been wreaking on my blades! Wow.

hey Gib you should examine your tips under your new scope ;) i found that mine looked horrendous!

........
:pinch: :blush: :oops: :unsure: :dry: :huh:

Ouch..... Oh, God. Do I have to? Sheessshhh, now the little pointy part has to be perfect! :S
~~~~

For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

"My goal is to be a good, practical knife sharpener. My dream is to polish molecules."
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 3 weeks ago #18179

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Quote from Razoredge:
"So tom, what if you just drilled down just enough to seat the bushing but didn't drill the WE paddle all the way through? then you wouldn't have to worry about it slipping off the end of the rod on the shorter arms, right?"

I suppose you could do it if you had a very long drill bit or reamer. The problem is that the hole has to line up almost perfectly with the centers of the bushings. From my experience, the chances of the counter-bores being concentric with the thru-bores is nil. The factory bores are too sloppy to let you find exact center. And if you're off by a 32nd of an inch, you lose the advantage of not over-running the end of the rod. I considered drilling the bore out after mounting the bushings (your drill would be held concentric to the bushing bore), but if part of the bore was out of line, the rod would catch it and it'd just be annoying. So I just tossed that idea out and went with 2" longer rods. I had to buy a 1/4-28 die for about $10, but money isn't an issue for me. No debts, no other filthy habits.

If Clay is OK with me posting an explanation of my process, I'll be glad to do so. Having been in a business with a lot of intellectual property and having a loyal nature, I'm sensitive to posting alternative solutions on the guy's own web site. My method is the equivalent of teaching the reader how to make his own handles - which I did before WE offered glass blocks. Otherwise, I'll be glad to put something together and e-mail it to you. Gimme a couple of days.

Tom
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 3 weeks ago #18181

  • Geocyclist
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Does the VTSA set screw go into a divot? I assume no or else fine adjustment would not be possible. By fine adjustment I mean being able to set it the first time perfectly flush with the first stone. I know you don't move it after initial setup. I ask only because from the photos I see it looks like it does.

Tom, great write up. Well written and good photos. This should go in the Wiki. B)
Last Edit: 1 month 3 weeks ago by Geocyclist.
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 3 weeks ago #18182

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wickededge wrote:
tcmeyer wrote:
I'm still waiting to hear if you other OCD-types are using the VSTA's in the same way.

I was thinking that maybe I'm seeing results which are related to my modified stones, and that maybe it doesn't pay to do this with standard, unmodified stones.

???? Or do you see any holes in my methodology?

I've talked to a few people who are reporting very similar methods with similar results - surprisingly much better edges.

Not only does the VTSA allow for consistent stone setting, it throws out the inaccuracy of the angle cube. Every time the angle is used there is more potential inaccuracy introduced. Both from the cube itself, and possibly front the user. I remember previous discussions about the cube only being accurate to +/- 0.1 to 0.3 degrees. I am both surprised and delighted to hear that the VSTA gets better results. This tells me that that little bit of slop eliminated does make a difference. If you see it in cutting performance that is a real gain.

Also there are lazy people like myself. I use the cube for each stone type, but not every grit. So I use it once for diamonds, water stones, then strops, but not every grit. With the VSTA you can easily check every stone used.
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 3 weeks ago #18184

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I've reversed my angle bar, so the detents are opposite from where the VSTA clamp screw touches. Even if it wasn't, the ends of the screws supplied with the VSTA are flat, not cone-shaped. I think this is almost mandatory if you've added the locking levers.

Did anybody notice that my left-side locking lever is not in the normal position? About six months ago I had to drill and tap a new hole, because the factory threads stripped. It looks like they're using oversized drills to make the tapping easier and maybe have gone too far. This aircraft-grade aluminum (at least I think it's that) is really tough stuff. Thread depth is what limits the tensile load limit for screws and bolts. Usually you can go down to 70% depth and still be workable. Can you feel any wobble in your thumbscrews when they're not locked down?

RE the AngleCube issue, yes, the VSTA is much, much faster. With the AngleCube, I lower it into position three or four times to get the best reading. If you make small adjustments with the AC in place, it usually won't even respond. Getting readings of 0.1 degree differences is like eating a soup sandwich; good luck.
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 1 week ago #18385

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I did some testing today, to see how repeatable my technique is with a series of blocks.

The premise of the test is to use the VSTA's as a reference, making all settings from scratch and measuring the resulting angles.

Qualifier: Be advised that these tests were conducted with modified blocks, using 1/4" Oilite bronze bearings (bushings). Don't expect to the get the same results with unmodified blocks.

In each test, I loosened the ball-joint mount from the degree-bar, installed a new stone and then lined the block up with the fixed VSTA plate, then tightened the ball-joint mount to the degree bar. I then following my standard procedure of backing out on the micro-adjusting screw to clear the stone from the VSTA plate, then turned the micro-adjust in while pinching the far end of the stone to the far end of the plate until contact is made and resistance is felt. Each reading was taken with the same amount of pressure applied at the same points.

Before the main part of this test, I ran a series of tests to establish how to take valid angle readings with my AngleCube. With the stone resting against the vise, I took 20 consecutive readings on my AngleCube, raising it and then replacing it against the stone and extracted an average. I did this for two stones, taking 20 readings from sides A & B and another 20 with the stones inverted. Having four sets of samples, I established that the first ten samples in each set were within 0.04 degrees of the 20-sample average. Now I knew that 10 samples were adequate in establishing a reasonably accurate reading.

Next I took 10 sample readings for each of eight different stones. Again, each stone was set up from loose hardware, using the same set-up technique with the VSTA (swat) adapter descibed above.

With the first stone, I took three sets of samples, each with the same set-up procedure. Theoretically, they should all be the same. The first set had an average of 19.90 degrees. The second set was 19.93 degrees and the third set was 20.00 degrees. Statistically, this isn't a big sample population, but we can infer from this that the VSTA should produce angles within about 0.1 degrees, all else being equal. Eight more stones varying in thickness by up to about 0.030" produced angles as high as 20.15 degrees. This actually is still pretty impressive. Plus or minus 0.15 degrees or less is pretty darn cool, I think.

As testing continued with the additional stones, I noticed that as the blocks became thinner, the angles tended to increase. This is what the VSTA is suppose to compensate for, so what gives?

More to come... But please, if you have some insight into this, we're all waiting with bated breath...
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 1 week ago #18389

  • uofaengr
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Was testing done just on the diamonds or other stones as well?
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Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 1 week ago #18390

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I tested one each of my 400/600 and 800/1000 grit diamond blocks, my 1200/1600 and micro-fine ceramic blocks and several of my home-made glass blocks. The results are logged on an old XP laptop which isn't connected to my intranet. I'll have to transfer the Excel file and post it here later.
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Re:Using the Variable Thickness Stone Adapters 1 month 1 week ago #18391

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I'm eager to see those results...
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